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Author Topic:   Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go?
Phat
Member
Posts: 14955
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 301 of 432 (832885)
05-13-2018 2:13 PM


Addressing The Issue Of Where The Great Flood Got Its Water
Good question. I enjoy reading what other members think, even if most of them are no longer active here. Since these threads are no longer limited to 300 posts, I brought this one out of summation.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14955
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 305 of 432 (833317)
05-19-2018 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
12-03-2011 12:56 PM


Topic Synopsis
Trixie,Topic Originator writes:

Arguments have been made that the flood was not catastrophic or violent, that water flows uphill, that the opening of the fountains of the deep doesn't mean water reaching high in the atmosphere, that water wasn't in the mantle pre-flood, but got there afterwards when the "single land mass" divided in the days of Peleg.

So many different arguments have been made, some inconsistent with others, that it's difficult to visualize the floodist's model and the various statements are scattered over numerous posts and threads.

In the distant past we've discussed this topic, touching on Walt Brown's hydroplate theory and vapour canopies etc, but it would be worthwhile to discuss this subject (...)many claims are made regarding the source of the flood water. A rough calculation puts the amount of water required to flood the entire earth at 2046 million cubic km. To help get an idea of what that means, the Earth's crust is estimated to be 1332 million cubic km (I googled that). The temperature of the mantle ranges from 1400C to 3000C with densities ranging from 3.4 - 4.3 g/cm2.

What effect would 2000 million cubic km of superheated pressurised water have on the atmosphere, crust and life if it was released to the surface over a period of 40 days? What sort of atmospheric temperatures are we talking about here?

When water becomes steam it increases in volume by 1600 times, giving us a total of 3.2 trillion cubic km. In contrast, the earth's atmosphere is estimated to be 51,000 million cubic km so the volume of steam is 62.7 times the volume of the earth's atmosphere. .

Dr.Walt Browns Hydroplate Theory

pandion,inactive member writes:

Isn't it interesting that the entire video is nothing more than assertion from faith in a book of mythology without a single bit of actual evidence?
Creationist arguments in the creation/evolution debates all seem to fall into two categories:

1) The mythology of bronze age, nomadic herdsmen is scientific in nature. That is the argument offered in the video. But it is presented without any evidence. The arguments show a gross lack of understanding of what science is and how it works. In science, an assertion must be supported by evidence as the basis of an hypothesis which supports a prediction that can be tested. Creationism is assertion based on mythology that is untestable and therefore, not scientific.

2) Evolution is a religion. But, of course, not even christian evolutionary biologists attend evolutionary worship services. In fact, in science, the point is to challenge everything and to accept nothing on faith. But any challenge must be based on evidence supported by hypothesis, prediction, and testing. Empty assertion just doesn't do the job.

Rrhain writes:

The problem, of course, is that it doesn't matter how flat the earth is. You cannot flood the earth using the water that already exists. If there is dry land anywhere, then that means you have to have additional water come from somewhere else. The entire reason that there is dry land is precisely that there isn't enough water to cover it up.

The amazing thing about sea level is that it is the lowest you can go and still be on the "surface". Water necessarily rushes downhill to the lowest level it can get: Sea level. Thus, dry land is necessarily above and beyond what the water can cover.

The reason we can have a local flood with the water we have is that we take it away from somewhere else: To flood point A with water, you have to take it away from point B. Therefore, it is physically impossible to flood the earth with the water we already have.(...)Trying to get the flood to happen with the water we currently have on the planet in the way it is described in the book is mathematically and physically impossible.

Modulous writes:

Where did that water go? There are two possible answers. The first is the simple reading: The water dried up. The people that wrote this story probably did not realize that when water dries up, it goes somewhere.

A second answer, which does not assume its a plot hole resulting from scientific ignorance, would be that the water presumably returned to the deep. It evaporated back up through the firmament. Presumably, the stoppers Yahweh used were semi-permeable membranes or something. Or maybe it drained into the large cavernous underworld?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2011 12:56 PM ICANT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 3:24 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14955
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 409 of 432 (880361)
08-03-2020 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 2:59 PM


One Off Topic Note
ringo writes:

I will be glad to discuss the Bible with you in an appropriate thread.


Juvenissun writes:

Anytime. I will be honored.

In context, science threads stick with evidence while Faith & Belief threads can be more philosophical and as my opponents say, a place where one is free (though foolish) to make things up. One can get away with it it Faith & Belief, but in a Science thread, one must stick with objective recorded evidence and not alternative theories from Walt Brown or one of the CRI group.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 2:59 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Juvenissun, posted 08-03-2020 4:50 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 411 by ICANT, posted 08-07-2020 12:55 AM Phat has responded
 Message 412 by Juvenissun, posted 08-07-2020 7:40 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14955
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 413 of 432 (880534)
08-07-2020 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by ICANT
08-07-2020 12:55 AM


Re: Re evidence
ICANT writes:

Phat I have been around here for several years and I have yet to see any evidence that supports all the hypothesis, and so called theories that are pushed as evidence to support them.

Maybe I missed some evidence somewhere that you could point me to.

Good morning Pastor. OK lets examine this argument. On the ssurface, I agree that traditional science is far from conclusive although they do have a method to their tests.

I dont think for a minute that science has all of the answers. I am a Cosmological Creationist and believe that God created the heavens(The Universe itself and any possible extensions or multiverses) and the earth (the one rock that we have to call home.)

My only issue in the science side of the forum is the comparison and contrast of what specifically constitutes evidence and theory. It is one thing to say that the opponents lack the proper evidence or understanding. It is another to present a counter-argument, which I fail to see many creationists do.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by ICANT, posted 08-07-2020 12:55 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by ICANT, posted 08-07-2020 12:45 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14955
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 414 of 432 (880536)
08-07-2020 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by Juvenissun
08-07-2020 7:40 AM


Re: One Off Topic Note
Jevenissun writes:

If a person can not think in logic, which is in contrast to "thinking free", his argument can not go far, even in faith and belief.

OK.

I prefer Faith & Belief in that philosophy and speculation are more easily allowed than in science. Science requires objectivity.

quote:
t involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental and measurement-based testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings.
Comments?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Juvenissun, posted 08-07-2020 7:40 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Juvenissun, posted 08-07-2020 6:29 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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