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Author Topic:   Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go?
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 72 of 432 (643273)
12-05-2011 9:13 PM


I'm not sure where the water came from, but I figured out where it went:

"Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail," - Job 38.22

I'm just glad I don't have to count inventory in either.


  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(4)
Message 89 of 432 (643468)
12-07-2011 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by ICANT
12-06-2011 11:39 PM


Re: Miles of rock
In Texas many oil wells are at 4,000 feet, due to the pressure below it.

I work on Texas oil wells every day. They range from less than 400 feet deep to about 26,000 feet deep. As often as not, the reservoirs when initially discovered have pressure in excess of that from the overburden rock because they have natural gas trapped inside in addition to oil. No "pressure below it" is involved, unless it's a water drive. If it is a water drive, gravity is the motive force behind it. That's pressure from above, not from below.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 128 of 432 (645350)
12-26-2011 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by JonF
12-26-2011 12:09 PM


Re: Miles of rock
And with no inkling of what "permeability" or "deliverability" mean, either. 5-kilometer-deep rocks tend to not have the megadarcy perms that Ye Greate Fludde would seem to demand. They, and the water in them, do, though, tend to be hotter than gopher wood will insulate against.

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 138 of 432 (645417)
12-26-2011 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by ICANT
12-26-2011 8:49 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Buz, the mass of the current oceans is about 1.5 e +18 tons. This is enough to cover a "billiard ball" smoothed earth by over a kilometer of water.

Are you now going to tell me that "lifeform materials" grew solidly packed over the whole Earth to a couple of kilometers deep when Noah was 599 years old? Wood and meat are pretty close to the density of water, so that is how much volume your 1.372 quintillion tons of life would take up. How does your "model" make this work?


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 140 of 432 (645424)
12-26-2011 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ICANT
12-26-2011 9:42 PM


Re: Miles of rock
There is oil and natural gas at 30,000 feet below the sea-bed in the gulf of Mexico as well as water.

How did it get there?

In the GoM, it got there largely through the courtesy of the Mississippi River and its ancestral river systems. Organic matter sank in shallow, oxygen-poor water and was buried along with clays to make shales. Shales were buried by sands and more shales. When burial was deep enough, the shales got hot enough to be "cooked" to form oil and gas. Some of that oil and gas migrated out of the shales into adjacent sands, where it is fairly easy to get out by sticking a pipe into the sand.

It tends to be overpressured down there because the sand it resides in is weak and compressible - so pressures can get close to the whole load of the overlying rock. That can be about 1 psi per foot of depth. A pipe full of oil will exert less than 0.4 psi/foot of depth at the bottom of the hole. So (1.0 -0.4)= 0.6 psi times 30,000 feet = 18,000 psi at the wellhead, on surface. And that's with no gas to lighten that 0.4 psi/foot up even more.

Non-USA members: I apologize deeply for my pounds per square inch and feet. That's the way the American oil patch thinks, and I'm too frazzled at the moment to get you bars/megapascals and meters.

Edited by Coragyps, : clarity, I hope


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 147 of 432 (645490)
12-27-2011 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by foreveryoung
12-27-2011 11:30 AM


The noahic crust of the earth was bombarded with meteorites and asteroids.

That's nice. Have you ever heard of kinetic energy, Foreveryoung? Do you know how much kinetic energy gets converted into heat when a 100,000-kg space rock hits the Earth at a speed of 7000 meters per second?

Yeah, I thought not. I get 4.9 trillion joules. Do you know how much heat that translates into? No? It's enough to heat the rock plus about 600 times the rock's weight of the rock it hit by 100 degrees Celsius. I think that even cool water might boil a bit.


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 160 of 432 (645651)
12-28-2011 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Percy
12-28-2011 5:36 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Maybe the Texas State Board of Education can call you to testify the next time they review science textbooks, there's always cameras at those events.

Dammit, Percy!!! NOOOO!!!!!!!


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 179 of 432 (645857)
12-30-2011 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by foreveryoung
12-30-2011 4:11 PM


Re: It all goes into heat
Those were not the conditions in Noah's day.

Where is your evidence for what conditions were "in Noah's day?" I'll take scripture, even, as that is all you've got.

Except I don't remember what verse says there's five miles of water beneath the crust. Or the one that says there is a crust. A simple "Genesis xx:yy" formal will be fine.


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 181 of 432 (645859)
12-30-2011 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by foreveryoung
12-30-2011 3:38 PM


Re: It all goes into heat
If you consider the amount of heat necessary to disintegrate miles of crust into sand...

Where is the sand today? Other than Lamesa, Texas, I mean. Is it disguised as rock or something?


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 182 of 432 (645861)
12-30-2011 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by jar
12-30-2011 5:26 PM


Re: It all goes into heat
Almost certainly, Jar.

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 183 of 432 (645863)
12-30-2011 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by foreveryoung
12-30-2011 3:50 PM


Yes, 4.9 trillion joules is enough heat to raise 700,000 kg of crust by 100 degrees.

I made an error - asteroids strike at at least Earth's escape velocity of 11,000 m/sec, not 7,000 as I wrote. Make that 12.1 trillion joules. 20 to 30 km/sec is much more common, at least in these post-Noachic times.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 230 of 432 (646242)
01-03-2012 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by ICANT
01-03-2012 4:16 PM


Re: Miles of rock
I could just as easily say that any water that reaches 100° C becomes steam.

Any water in the lithosphere or mantle that reaches 176.6666666666° C is superheated steam.

Those are true today as is proven on a daily basis in boilers around the world.

Well, no, that isn't true at all. Any (pure) water anywhere that's at 177 C and at a pressure over 136 pounds per square inch is hot water. Liquid hot water. Water hotter than 374 C or 705 F is vapor (or steam) regardless of pressure.

I have worked around wells into the lithosphere in California and Costa Rica that tap into either liquid- or vapor-form water, all hotter than 176.66666 C. Pressure enters in to it, ICANT.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 240 of 432 (646271)
01-03-2012 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by ICANT
01-03-2012 9:00 PM


Re: Miles of rock
The only difference would be is that liquid water would be available much deeper in the Earth making twice the amount of water available to produce water for the flood.

Steam for the Fludde. Old Faithful is a very mild example; wells around Indio, California can produce maybe a million pounds of steam per hour.

When you take water at 600F and reduce the applied pressure to 14.7 psi, quite a bit of it flashes to steam. Think Mark Twain and Mississippi steamboats exploding.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 248 of 432 (646466)
01-04-2012 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Perdition
01-04-2012 6:10 PM


Re: Miles of rock
And I'm having a hell of a time visualizing the Late Heavy Bombardment squishing trees and dinosaurs and moss into coal and oil instead of vaporizing it all.....

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5552
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 254 of 432 (646497)
01-04-2012 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by foreveryoung
01-04-2012 7:38 PM


Re: Miles of rock
...testify to reformation after a violent destructive period which took place about 3,000,000,000 years before multicellular life arose. 3.8 billion years before the first Gopher Wood Tree.

- fixed it for you.

You're welcome!

Was your great-great-great-grandfather buried in Baltimore? Named Edgar? If so, you're pretty good!


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