Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8924 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-17-2019 11:18 PM
22 online now:
DrJones*, Hyroglyphx, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus) (3 members, 19 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 859,867 Year: 14,903/19,786 Month: 1,626/3,058 Week: 404/868 Day: 43/70 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Problem With the Literal Interpretation of Scripture
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 13 of 304 (642980)
12-03-2011 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ICANT
12-03-2011 2:19 PM


Re: Confusion
So it is just to punish all of the innocent people because the King did not do what he should?

Yup, right.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by ICANT, posted 12-03-2011 2:19 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 25 of 304 (644061)
12-14-2011 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Scanman
12-14-2011 6:31 PM


It is absolutely positively certainly sure that 2 Tim 3:16 is not referring to "The Bible" since the first canonized Christian Bible was created hundreds of years later. Even if Paul had anything to do with 2 Timmy it is not talking about "The Bible".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Scanman, posted 12-14-2011 6:31 PM Scanman has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2011 8:09 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 29 of 304 (644110)
12-15-2011 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Dawn Bertot
12-15-2011 8:09 AM


Yet you assert that you have some understanding of reason and logic.

When was 2 Timmy written?

When was the first Canon created?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2011 8:09 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 71 of 304 (645063)
12-22-2011 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ICANT
12-22-2011 6:41 PM


Re: The OT is Not a Christian Document
No, it is unlikely that Jesus had any idea who actually wrote any of the Torah.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ICANT, posted 12-22-2011 6:41 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 82 of 304 (645153)
12-23-2011 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ICANT
12-23-2011 8:15 PM


Re: The OT is Not a Christian Document
ICANT writes:

In Exodus 17:14 God told Moses to write for a memorial a missive (written message).

If Moses did not write then it's a lie.

HUH?

Why would it be a lie?

Is "Study in Scarlet" 'Being a reprint from the Reminiscences of John H. Watson, M.D., Late of the Army Medical Department a lie'?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ICANT, posted 12-23-2011 8:15 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 211 of 304 (654797)
03-04-2012 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Lone77Star
03-04-2012 1:56 PM


Re: Hidden Wisdom -- The Literalists' Nightmare
But we have found absolute proof that the Biblical Flood myths are just that, simply not factual.

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:

quote:
19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:

quote:
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:

quote:
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."

and in Genesis 7:

quote:
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things.

If we play mix and match and take the best scenario from each of the myths we might be able to claim that only the birds and land animals were wiped out based on the passage from the Genesis 6 story and that we have the larger saved population found in Genesis 7.

Based on that mix and match game set we have a situation where all land animals and birds found today will be descended from a population that consisted of at most fourteen critters (seven pairs of clean animals and birds) and at worst case four critters (two pair of unclean animals).

Now that is what I would call a real bottleneck.

We know we can see bottlenecks in the genetic record; a great example is the one in Cheetahs but we even see them in the human genome and most other species.

BUT...

If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period.

Talk about a big RED flag.

That bottleneck signature would be something every geneticists in the world would see. It would be like a neon sign, Broadway at midnight on New Years Eve. It would be something even a blind geneticist could see.

So it seems to me to be a very simple test that will support or refute the Flood.

If that genetic marker is there in EVERY species living on land or bird of the air, then there is support for the flood. It does not prove the flood happened but it would be very strong support.

If on the other hand that genetic marker is NOT there, then the Flood is refuted.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Lone77Star, posted 03-04-2012 1:56 PM Lone77Star has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Thugpreacha, posted 03-04-2012 3:56 PM jar has responded
 Message 285 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2012 8:35 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 213 of 304 (654802)
03-04-2012 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Thugpreacha
03-04-2012 3:56 PM


Re: Hidden Wisdom -- The Literalists' Nightmare
What book?

What does "virgin birth" even mean?

Why is it important?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Thugpreacha, posted 03-04-2012 3:56 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 286 of 304 (685520)
12-23-2012 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Thugpreacha
12-23-2012 8:35 AM


Re: Hidden Wisdom -- The Literalists' Nightmare
Video links are not a response.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2012 8:35 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by NoNukes, posted 12-23-2012 11:26 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 295 of 304 (685624)
12-24-2012 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Faith
12-24-2012 8:59 AM


Re: Hidden Wisdom -- The Literalists' Nightmare
Too funny.

Your faith seems to be in the Bible even though it was written by just unknown men while ignoring what God actually wrote.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 12-24-2012 8:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 299 of 304 (686053)
12-28-2012 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Faith
12-28-2012 3:11 PM


Have you even read the Bible Faith?
The entire human race is damned, we're born damned, we're born fallen, out of touch with God, spiritually dead, incapable of relating to God, and on top of that in thrall to Satan, who "won" the right to rule us when he deceived our first parents. God didn't HAVE to provide any kind of salvation for us, but He did, and He promised to do so all the way back in Eden when He promised to send the Seed of the woman who would bruise the head of Satan.

Utter nonsense. There is nothing like that in the Bible story of Genesis 2&3. In fact the Bible specifically refutes that position if you would bother to read it. Neither Adam or (ST)Eve were incapable of relating to God or out of touch with God or fallen (in fact they received the great gift of knowledge of good and evil and became like God). And Satan is not even mentioned in the story.

Genesis writes:

Genesis 2-4

King James Version (KJV)

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.

19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.

21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 12-28-2012 3:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 303 of 304 (686262)
12-30-2012 4:06 PM


Biblical Christians do not seem to have read the Bible or interpret it literally
The evidence is clear that self proclaimed "Biblical Christians" haven't actually read the Bible, do not interpret it literally, constantly misrepresent what is in the Bible, diminish Jesus to nothing more than some burnt offering, totally ignore the lessons of his life, market a god that is nothing more than a petty tyrant at best and more often just a whining juvenile, are willfully ******** and in fact glory in their *********.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019