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Author | Topic: A Problem With the Literal Interpretation of Scripture | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 14884 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
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foreveryoung Member (Idle past 272 days) Posts: 921 Joined: |
God was in a covenant relationship with Israel. The worship of other gods was strictly forbidden as part of that covenant. What did Moses say God would do to anyone who worshipped other gods? What did Elijah prophecy would happen to the house of Ahab for its baal worship?
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Theodoric Member (Idle past 73 days) Posts: 7051 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
I and many others will not watch a video posted. Can you typeo ut a coherent answer?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Phat Member Posts: 14884 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
Basically what I said in the video was that to me, the flood story was symbolic..God always uses a remnant. I dont believe for a moment that Noah sent his boys up to Alaska to drag two kodiak bears down to their wooden boat. The only way I could imagine two of every species being drawn to the Ark as opposed to being rounded up and captured by 8 humans would be if the Spirit supernaturally drew them to the Ark. How would that even be natural if bears couldn't swim across oceans? And if the supernatural need be invoked(or employed by the Creator) to make the story work, why not just wipe the whole etch a sketch out and start over?
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Hey Phat, it might help if you had SOME knowledge of what creationists say about these things. Such as, for instance,
(1) that the land mass was all one continent at that time so that bears wouldn't have had to swim oceans to get to the ark; (2) that all the "species" named today were most likely not yet in existence and all wouldn't have been required on the Ark anyway to provide the genetic basis for the variations that have occurred since, the point being there may not have been any Kodiak bears at that time because there wasn't a cold part of the planet, and if there were, such a specialized breed would probably not have been the choice for the Ark to supply the genes for further variation; (3) that there was no fear of man in animals before the Flood, that came about after the Flood, so animals would have willingly come to Noah. Humans and animals were vegetarians. I wouldn't rule out the Holy Spirit calling the animals but animals do seem to have the ability to sense things that we don't anyway, such as weather changes, earthquakes, even cancer, and when somebody is going to die, so it COULD all have been simply animal instinct that brought them to the Ark. Sorry you find it so hard to believe God. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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Phat Member Posts: 14884 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: |
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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But what is your faith IN? God as you think He ought to be? That's a major mistake a lot of people make. God gave us His word so we wouldn't have to be dependent on our own personal notions.
But it's not Bible believers who are following our own intellect, it's those who REJECT the Bible or pick and choose from it who are following their own intellect. Saving faith believes God's word as God's word whether we can figure it out or not. There is NO way to know ANYTHING about Jesus Christ outside the Bible, none, period. The Bible was given to us so we COULD know about Christ and everything else about the nature of God. Again, God gave us the Book because on our own we can't get anything right about Him, because our minds are fallen. Consider all the different religions in the world. They can't all be right because they all contradict each other. That's what the fallen mind comes up with on its own. It was a great mercy that God gave us His revelation, Phat, we shouldn't prefer our own thoughts over that great gift. Yes, I know somebody, maybe even you, is going to answer Yeah but what makes YOUR holy book better than the other holy books?. Seems obvious to me but if it isn't obvious to others nothing much I can say to that. But you believe something and it's painful to watch you half believing but rejecting God's great gift or picking and choosing from it. He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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jar Member Posts: 33127 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Too funny.
Your faith seems to be in the Bible even though it was written by just unknown men while ignoring what God actually wrote. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 14884 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined:
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Does this mean that anyone who has never read a Bible is damned? Is God so limited so as to be unable to reach them any other way than through a book?
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
You can get the message without knowing anything about the messenger.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The entire human race is damned, we're born damned, we're born fallen, out of touch with God, spiritually dead, incapable of relating to God, and on top of that in thrall to Satan, who "won" the right to rule us when he deceived our first parents. God didn't HAVE to provide any kind of salvation for us, but He did, and He promised to do so all the way back in Eden when He promised to send the Seed of the woman who would bruise the head of Satan. Those who understood the message, which at that time was of course passed on by word of mouth down through Adam's progeny, looked forward to the Messiah, and in every generation there were those who got the message and looked forward to the Messiah. Job did not have the Bible and yet he expected to see his Redeemer. Those who knew of the Redeemer would have been saved. There were also distorted versions of the messianic hope that spawned many of the pagan religions, and nobody gets saved through a distorted message. If there are any now who still have the true message handed down through their own ancestry they too are saved, and some missionaries have reported surprising traditions that do seem to preserve such a message, and they receive the gospel gratefully. The odds aren't good that there are any more left, it's all degenerated into the distorted demon-driven religions. So now we have to take the gospel to all the unreached peoples. It's the gospel that saves, not the Bible, but the Bible, again, is now our source of the information in undistorted form.
See above. ABE: I'd just add that NOW, 2000 years after the coming of the Messiah promised down through all the preceding centuries, NOW, when we have it all in undistorted written form inspired by God Himself, NOW, it would be extreme foolishness to think you can make up who God is and ignore the written testimony of the witnesses of Christ. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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jar Member Posts: 33127 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.4
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Utter nonsense. There is nothing like that in the Bible story of Genesis 2&3. In fact the Bible specifically refutes that position if you would bother to read it. Neither Adam or (ST)Eve were incapable of relating to God or out of touch with God or fallen (in fact they received the great gift of knowledge of good and evil and became like God). And Satan is not even mentioned in the story.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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GDR Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 5409 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
First off I have been too busy to post on this forum for an extended time so I apologise for not replying to unanswered posts.
I'm happy to answer your question but I'd like to ask you one first. On what basis do you base your belief in an inerrant Bible? Is it a case that it is entirely by faith or is there some other reason to believe that for all intents and purposes the Bible is dictated to us by God?
Would it be the case that you believe that when Jesus corrects the teachings of Moses that God has different desires for different people of different times?
If someone could shake your belief about Noah and a world wide flood would you then reject the whole account of Jesus and His resurrection? He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
AbE: 12/30 This thread was not in summation mode when I posted my answer to GDR but now I can't post another? Something wrong here.
I would just like to suggest that if anybody cares about threads degenerating into exchanges of insults, Tanypteryx and Dr. A's recent offerings ought to get them a good smack in the teeth. Of course if nobody cares, fine. LATER: In answer to GDR's Summation: Please don't start a new thread, I really am not up to discussing all this with you. Thanks. =============================== 1) Faith plus experience = knowledge. 2) As far as I know, Jesus didn't correct Moses about anything, but since you don't bother to say what you have in mind I suspect something not quite aboveboard. 3) You can't imagine how solidly I KNOW the Bible is God's word. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 2416 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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You can't imagine how solidly I KNOW that you do not know anything about anything. What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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