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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street, London and Evereywhere Else
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6897
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 181 of 208 (644948)
12-21-2011 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Artemis Entreri
12-21-2011 11:04 AM


Re: hear from a conservatively inclined but not entirely lunatic person
You really should be careful whose ass you threaten to kick. There is always someone bigger and tougher than you.

With the internet you truly have no idea who you are threatening or talking tough to. Just saying.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-21-2011 11:04 AM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 182 of 208 (644961)
12-21-2011 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Artemis Entreri
12-21-2011 11:02 AM


Re: what a joke
because they sold us beachfront property in Alaska and we bought it, because they said it was a good deal, and we listened to them. why?

Because why would someone loan you money they knew you couldn't pay back?

I think everybody goes into a loan negotiation expecting that the way they're going to be screwed is, the bank is going to require monthly payments that they're not going to want to pay, but they can afford it by cutting out the luxuries.

Who on Earth goes into a loan negotiation saying "boy, I better watch out here or else the bank is going to give me $500,000 in free cash money?" Why would you expect a bank to do that? Why would you expect that to be something to watch out for?

Like always, AE, you're shooting your mouth off about "personal responsibility" and abdicating your own responsibility to know what the fuck you're talking about. You're covering for your ignorance with your hilarious, idiotic physical threats. You are aware that everybody thinks you're an idiot, right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-21-2011 11:02 AM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

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Shield
Member (Idle past 1206 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


(1)
Message 183 of 208 (644978)
12-22-2011 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Theodoric
12-21-2011 5:41 PM


Re: hear from a conservatively inclined but not entirely lunatic person
-

Edited by rbp, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2011 5:41 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 1295 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 184 of 208 (645043)
12-22-2011 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2011 11:25 AM


Is that Neil DeGrasse Tyson?

- Oni


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 208 (645044)
12-22-2011 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by onifre
12-22-2011 4:14 PM



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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 186 of 208 (645062)
12-22-2011 7:23 PM


Topic abandonment alert!
Let's stay on theme and cut out the unrelated chit-chat.

Adminnemooseus


Please be familiar with the various topics and other links in the "Essential Links", found in the top of the page menu. Amongst other things, this is where to find where to report various forum problems.

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(6)
Message 187 of 208 (645068)
12-22-2011 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by crashfrog
12-21-2011 9:57 PM


trickle down is a joke
Hi crashfrog,

I think everybody goes into a loan negotiation expecting that the way they're going to be screwed is, the bank is going to require monthly payments that they're not going to want to pay, but they can afford it by cutting out the luxuries.

What they appear to have been unjustified in thinking was that the banks were being honest with them.

What they appear to have been unjustified in thinking was that the banks were giving them the complete picture.

What they appear to have been unjustified in thinking was that they would continue to have the jobs they had.

What they appear to have been unjustified in thinking was that the economy would continue to grow as it had all their lives - a little bumpy but generally up.

But what remains in the debris of this colossal failure of the banking industry, is that IF the trickle-down theory was correct, people would have kept their jobs, would have gotten raises and would have been able to pay their mortgages: IF the mortgages HAD been paid then the failure\collapse would NOT have occurred.

But trickle-down did NOT occur, failure occurred, and the failure shot from the bottom to the top in DAYS, demonstrating that the economy is based on and dependent on the BASE, not the top.

The economy is based on the 99% going about daily business and generating a movement of funds, not on the 1% accumulating funds and taking them out of the economy, rather than recirculating them back to the base.

The economy is the movement of money, not the accumulation of it.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by crashfrog, posted 12-21-2011 9:57 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 188 of 208 (645077)
12-23-2011 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Dr Adequate
12-12-2011 12:21 PM


Re: Responsibility
More on Countrywide. Apparently they're frauds and racists.

The Justice Department on Wednesday announced the largest residential fair-lending settlement in history, saying that Bank of America had agreed to pay $335 million to settle allegations that its Countrywide Financial unit discriminated against black and Hispanic borrowers during the housing boom.

[...]

In addition, from 2004 to 2007 — the peak of Wall Street firms’ demand for subprime loans that they purchased, bundled and resold as securities, a major cause of the ensuing financial crisis — Countrywide allowed its brokers and employees to steer applicants who qualified for regular mortgages into a riskier and more expensive subprime loan.

The odds of a minority applicant being steered into such a loan were more than twice as high as those for a non-Hispanic white borrower with a similar credit rating, the department said. About two-thirds of the victims were Hispanic and one-third were black, the department said.

But wait! Didn't I hear on hate radio that the banks created all those subprime loans because of antidiscriminatory policies such as the CRA? Surely ... surely the whole problem was that the evil liberals wouldn't let them be mean to racial minorities?

Well, now I'm all confused. Could Rush Limbaugh have been lying to us?


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 189 of 208 (645174)
12-24-2011 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Artemis Entreri
12-09-2011 3:25 PM


Still dodging.
Hi Artemis Entreri

I thought that was just a rhetorical question.

And again you fail to answer it. Do you think it is just for a CEO to "earn" over a million dollars a year, while their lowest paid employee's annual salary is below the poverty line?

Do you approve of Walmart forcing people to use food stamps and medicare to get by, because their wages and benefits are not sufficient, thus causing governments to subsidize Walmart with tax dollars?

Usually when you resist arrest you get beat up. While that may be a minor charge for you, I do not consider it minor.

They were probably tolerating the trespassers in an attempt to find another solution to the problem rather than out right arrest.

Must be nice to think that everyone beaten up by police deserved it and that whatever reason the police had was necessarily not a minor charge . . . a convenient way to hide yourself from the truth of the matter. I thought you didn't trust the police, yet you back them up every time.

Obviously there was no major situation if it was not dealt with when it first arose. And there was no reason to resort to violence to arrest people one day that had not been arrested on a previous day for doing the same thing -- peaceful protests.

I don’t know, I do not speed.

Another dodge. Is this the kind of police treatment you expect for a person getting arrested for a speeding violation?

No I am not, I was wondering how many posts it would take before you started building one of your famous RAZD strawmen? What was it 2 responses?

Message 117: Y’all should totally be armed at your protests, the police aint stupid, well they aint that stupid. Basically act like a peasant, get treated like one.

So you are saying that an armed group of people demanding that government change and responding to police with bullets would not be considered a revolutionary act?

Again, reference is made to the US Constitution:

http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html

quote:
Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, ...


If your advice was followed the National Guard would have been called in. Do a little research on armed groups and rebellions, and you will see that your advocacy of using guns to solve a problem means the state\federal governments respond with more guns and less regard for the people.

Riiiight. That is why so many people get arrested at OWS events, while the terrorist racist tea party people don’t get arrested at their events. Do you live in the twilight zone?

Now who has the straw man argument? The Tea Party is neither racist (though some people at their gatherings may be) nor are they terrorists.

Curiously the Tea Party is also advocating working within the laws and the making changes for what they see as better government.

Amusingly there are Tea Party people that are involved in and that support the Occupy Movement - because they agree with both the methodology and the call for justice.

It’s not for bums and squatters, to camp out on. You visit a park enjoy it, and leave it, you don’t stay for weeks, and litter all over the place, and then refuse to leave when asked by city authorities.

Ooo. Another straw man. They are neither bums nor squatters - those are your terms you use to delude yourself that the police action is justified. Most occupiers have college degrees, many have jobs and homes. In addition, there are people that don't spend full time there but phase in and out in order to work and take care of homes, and there are more people that support the movement during the day. They also have been keeping the parks clean and picked up during the occupations, not littering. According to the Providence Police the incidence of crime in that particular park is down since the occupation started.

This is a peaceful assembly of citizens with a list of grievances that they want the government to address.

Not ironic at all, that our police use non-lethal, and less-than-lethal means of crowd control and dispersal. What is ironic is that hippies think our methods are the same as the methods used in Bahrain, Syria, and Libya, and try to actually act like they know what they are talking about.

And yet a veteran of the Iraq war was nearly killed, a veteran that had survived several tours of duty in Iraq.

What is ironic is that narrow minded conservative patsies think the methods used are somehow justified because they are supposed to be non-lethal, even though the goal of the methods is the same as in dictatorships -- to control the people that object to the government actions. This is done by causing bodily injury, whether lethal or not ... with people ending up in hospital emergency wards.

Somehow it is better than a third world country to walk up to a peaceful assembly and just open fire or bash people over the heads with lead weighted sticks.

No family is protected because blood is thicker than water, but those outside of the family? whatever.
Nah we are either a higher evolved species, or God created us to rule this planet.

Thus confirming that you are selfish, ignorant, arrogant, and possibly deluded.

Amusing that you think rats behave better you silly hippy.

Nothing like finishing with one of your famous ad hominem attacks - the sign of an inferior debate position.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-09-2011 3:25 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 190 of 208 (645246)
12-24-2011 4:57 PM


Adendum ...
http://www.aljazeera.com/...2011/12/2011122374830994443.html

quote:
Egyptians stage mass rally against army

Egyptian activists have gathered in Cairo for a mass protest against the ruling military and its handling of a series of clashes between security forces and demonstrators that killed 17 people and drew international criticism, even as thousands of others demonstrated their support for the army.

Tens of thousands protested in the capital's Tahrir Square, the focal point of protests against the Supreme Council of Armed Forces (SCAF) after Friday prayers.

"They are also saying the recent violent crackdown, specially the violence soldiers used against women, is unacceptable."

The now iconic pictures and videos of a woman protester being dragged and stripped by military forces during bloody clashes that erupted last Friday dominated the media and heightened criticism against the SCAF.

"The women of Egypt are a red line," the protesters in Tahrir chanted. "We either die like them or we get them their rights," followed.


Protesting to end oppressive government, to transition to a true democracy that represents the people . . .

Protesting for respect, equality and justice . . . how dare they!

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20332
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 191 of 208 (645313)
12-25-2011 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by RAZD
12-24-2011 4:57 PM


Re: Adendum ... II
Let me add this video that summarizes one persons experience from visiting many occupy protests:

quote:
Uploaded by OccupyTravels on Dec 23, 2011

In October 2011 I visited 10 different "Occupy Wall Street" encampments to gain a better understanding of the movement. I edited a short film that documents my experiences in Chicago, D.C., New York City, Providence, Boston, Montreal, Albany, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland. My film shows the Occupy Movement in its first phase, which I'm calling "The Awakening".

Please take a moment to view this and share it with others. I'm hoping to generate interest in the project and continue covering the movement into its next phase.

If you're interested, visit www.occupytravels.com for more media in the coming weeks.

Thank you!


The first stage - attracting awareness to the basic issues of economic justice - is now fairly complete.

We are now seeing the movement evolve to the next stage.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 208 (645497)
12-27-2011 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by RAZD
12-25-2011 7:41 PM


Re: Adendum ... II
We are now seeing the movement evolve to the next stage.

I haven't heard much about the Occupy movement in the last week....

What's the next stage?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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DC85
Member (Idle past 109 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


(3)
Message 193 of 208 (648055)
01-13-2012 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by New Cat's Eye
12-27-2011 12:24 PM


Re: Adendum ... II
I haven't heard much about the Occupy movement in the last week....

What's the next stage?

it's getting to the point that the issues brought up are mainstream talking points. One clue is the recent blast in the Republican primary with Newt and Perry attacking Romney for "Vulture" capitalism. It causing friction and it goes to show that it has influenced what should be the "other side"


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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 194 of 208 (648114)
01-13-2012 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by DC85
01-13-2012 12:01 AM


Re: Adendum ... II
DC writes:

it's getting to the point that the issues brought up are mainstream talking points.

I agree. Here in the UK we have a conservative prime-minister declaring that boardroom pay is out of control and reflects a "market failure" that is the result of "crony capitalism" and which needs to be addressed.

It's difficult to establish any direct link but I think that the occupy movement and other such protests have definitely brought these things to the fore and made politicians who would otherwise be championing market forces as the be-all-and-end-all take note of people's rising frustration and discontent.


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 208 (648186)
01-13-2012 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by RAZD
12-22-2011 8:38 PM


Re: trickle down is a joke
Zen Deist writes:

But trickle-down did NOT occur, failure occurred, and the failure shot from the bottom to the top in DAYS, demonstrating that the economy is based on and dependent on the BASE, not the top.

Apparently, there is no longer any pretense that the myth of trickle-down (voodoo) economics ever had any basis in fact.

According to the leading candidate for Obama's house, people who want to discuss the increasing income gap between the rich and the middle class (outside of quite rooms) are simply envious, and perhaps sinfully covetous of their rich brethern. The other Republican candidates are being encourage to stop pointing out problems with Romney's work at Bain because doing so is bad for the Republican party.

http://www.foxnews.com/...inst-criticism-romneys-bain-record

quote:
Republican New York Rep. Michael Grimm also released a statement saying the attacks would have a "negative effect on the party."

"When GOP candidates, especially those who identify themselves as conservatives, use phrases like 'vulture capitalism' or adopt leftist rhetoric, they are jeopardizing the strength and unity of the party," he said.


There's no need to make this stuff up.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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