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Author Topic:   Evidence to expect given a designer
Tangle
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Posts: 7008
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 155 of 373 (645973)
01-01-2012 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Just being real
01-01-2012 5:01 AM


Re: Evidence for a designer
just Being Real writes:

"I" being some sort of intelligence that was involved in the formation of the universe and life.......

Scientific observation A: Something has never been observed coming from nothing.

Begin infinite regress now.


Life, don't talk to me about life.

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 Message 153 by Just being real, posted 01-01-2012 5:01 AM Just being real has not yet responded

  
Tangle
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Posts: 7008
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 172 of 373 (646036)
01-02-2012 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Percy
01-02-2012 8:16 AM


Re: Evidence for a designer
Percy writes:

One way would be to ask if you can describe any overt evidence that we should expect to see if there were a designer

As you say (I think!), it must be the case that in any universe that has conscious minds it must seem to those minds that the universe has at least the superficial appearance of being designed.

I find it useful to think that if our universe was designed, it was designed by something that either didn't want the inhabitants to know who designed it and what for, or simply didn't care. It the creator wanted us to know, it would have left its TM on the mechanism for all of us to find, no matter how primitive we are.

So at the very most, the designer god, if he did exist, has nothing to do with the religious god that people here talk about.


Life, don't talk to me about life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Percy, posted 01-02-2012 8:16 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7008
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 190 of 373 (646188)
01-03-2012 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by mike the wiz
01-03-2012 2:45 PM


mike the wiz writes:


There are no new observed novel designs. Even if information was gained, they have yet to show an improvement to a fruit-fly. We see adaptations, but the same essential organisms.


You may be interested in this:

Scientists report on the development of engineered silkworms that express a synthetic spider silk protein and stably produce chimeric silk fibers that are stronger than parental silkworm silk fibers and as tough as spider dragline silk

http://www.genengnews.com/...oduce-super-tough-silk/81246148

Spiders make extremely strong silk, but it can't be farmed (spiders eat each other). Silkworms can easily be farmed but make weak silk. So geneticists stitch a spider silk gene into a silk moth and get super strong silk that can be farmed.

That's intelligent design.


Life, don't talk to me about life.

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 Message 181 by mike the wiz, posted 01-03-2012 2:45 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7008
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 211 of 373 (646457)
01-04-2012 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Taq
01-04-2012 5:20 PM


Re: Where's the beef?
Taq writes:

Why would you rewrite cytochrome C to make it look like evolution occurred?


That's a recurring theme - why would God make it LOOK as though it was done by evolution, whilst leaving no proper clues about designing it himself - I've never seen anyone even attempt that answer.

Perhaps he just has a wicked sense of humour.


Life, don't talk to me about life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Taq, posted 01-04-2012 5:20 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7008
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 323 of 373 (647859)
01-11-2012 4:27 PM


Another example from my favourite snail man, Steve Jones.

LET'S TURN TO THE second issue: natural selection. People often think of natural selection as something almost magical. But it isn't. It's extraordinarily simple. I first witnessed natural selection taking place in a soap factory in Liverpool in the 1960s, where I worked after leaving school.

Detergent was made then as it is made now: by forcing boiling hot chemicals at great pressure through a nozzle. As the mixture zooms out, the pressure drops, and it breaks into a vapour that is sucked away and a powder which is then sold as detergent.

The nozzles were a damn nuisance. They were inefficient, kept blocking and made detergent grains of different sizes.

Unilever and various other companies hired mathematicians and physicists in an attempt to improve the situation. But they didn't do very well; it turns out that the physics and maths of the transition from liquid to powder is quite difficult to understand.

So, almost in despair, they turned to the lowly biologists and asked if they had anything to add. What the biologists did was to apply Darwinian natural selection.

They made 10 copies of the nozzles, with slight changes absolutely at random. Some nozzles were longer, some shorter, some had a bigger or smaller hole, maybe a few grooves on the inside. But one of them improved a very small amount on the original, perhaps by just one or two per cent.

Based on the improved nozzle, they made another 10 slightly different copies, and repeated the process. After only 45 generations – which would be an utterly trivial instant in evolutionary time – they had a nozzle that worked many times better than the original. This was without any forethought of any kind, only by a simple application of evolutionary mechanisms.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/2676/full


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

  
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