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LamarkNewAge
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Message 367 of 560 (875680)
05-03-2020 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by GDR
04-28-2020 11:12 AM


Re post 248. How can you say Papius knew of the Gospel of John.
Polycarp was the biggest quoter of what would make up the New Testament , and he did not quote or allude to the Gospel of John.
You mentioned Polycarp as an associate of the Apostle John in an earlier post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by GDR, posted 04-28-2020 11:12 AM GDR has replied

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2342
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 451 of 560 (875924)
05-09-2020 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by ringo
05-07-2020 3:36 PM


Re: Historical and/or Fiction
Understand the time difference between Polycarp and Irenaeus .
The former died 107 to 108 or 115 to 117.
The later wrote around 200.
The many claims about Polycarp came from Irenaeus.
Not a very early source. And Irenaeus wrote in France. Modern day what is France, that is.
CORRECTION. He wrote his extant, authentic Epistles during the time of Ignatius and writings. 107 to 108 or 115 to 117. But he lived to 156. Neither Ignatius nor Polycarp wrote a thing about knowing John. Irenaeus made it up. Irenaeus was almost an institution in and of himself. Possibly the dad of modern Christianity. The bastardization of all Christians might be due to the one man from France. The religion does not follow John or Jesus. It follows Father Irenaeus.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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 Message 421 by ringo, posted 05-07-2020 3:36 PM ringo has replied

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2342
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 457 of 560 (875933)
05-09-2020 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by GDR
05-09-2020 4:47 PM


Re: Historical and/or Fiction
But where did Polycarp indicate any relationship with John. He wrote 2 epistles that we still have today. Ignatius wrote him a letter. Ignatius died no later than 117.
Irenaeus was fond of saying he had title deeds straight from the Apostles.
Clement of Rome and Ignatius claimed that the 100 AD bishops were appointed by the Apostles, but there was never any meat or stories behind the brief claims.Very brief claims.
Irenaeus was a great player but his stories lacked any kind of details that cause us to take seriously. No evidence that Ignatius or Polycarp could understand Aramaic or Hebrew. No evidence of any documents from John or any Apostle. No storyline details.
Again, Polycarp never has been shown to know of John's Gospel that Irenaeus presents as John's Gospel. Polycarp is somebody who did not claim to have known John, in any actual document that exists in fragments, quotes, or in entirety.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by GDR, posted 05-09-2020 4:47 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by GDR, posted 05-09-2020 6:36 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2342
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 461 of 560 (875938)
05-09-2020 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by GDR
05-09-2020 6:36 PM


Re: Historical and/or Fiction
Papias did not show knowledge of the Gospel of John.
So what were there notes that Irenaeus jotted down during his interaction with Polycarp. I don't see any body of notes about Polycarp and his supposed interactions with John. Where are they. What are they about.
Back to Papias, and your statement that he knew John. What do you have here to show us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by GDR, posted 05-09-2020 6:36 PM GDR has replied

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 Message 464 by GDR, posted 05-10-2020 2:17 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2342
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 462 of 560 (875939)
05-09-2020 8:37 PM


Polycarp did not know about the Gospel of John.
I will quote form P. N. Harrison's book, Polycarps Two Epistles To The Philippians.
P.285
Polycarp must hff have been familiar with all or most of the following
A The Synoptic Gospels and Acts
Lightfoot, as we have seen, recognized six definite quotations from Matthew, two from Mark, three from Luke, and two from Acts, in addition to two resemblances to Matthew and four to Acts.
P. 294 to 295
...Polycarps collection of Paulines... shows clear signs of acquaintance with the Pastoral Epistles
P. 296
E The Catholic Epistles
With the exception of 2 Peter, Polycarp shows possible affinities with all or most of the Catholic Epistles
P. 302
Reference has already been made in Chapter XVIII to the negative fact that our Epistle affords no sign that Polycarp had ever read, or heard of, the Fourth Gospel.
END QUOTES.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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