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Author Topic:   Hitch is dead
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 211 of 224 (852492)
05-12-2019 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by ringo
05-12-2019 2:59 PM


Except I don't think I am wrong.

Isn’t that one drop of blood, that one minor sin, so insignificant as to be called non-existent?

Word games?

IMO, the same for the whole body of religious work.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 2:59 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 3:21 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 212 of 224 (852493)
05-12-2019 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by AZPaul3
05-12-2019 3:08 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

Isn’t that one drop of blood, that one minor sin, so insignificant as to be called non-existent?


The context was mathematics. Mathematically, existent is not the same as non-existent.

AZPaul3 writes:

IMO, the same for the whole body of religious work.


Tell that to the people lined up at the Salvation Army soup kitchen.

Hippopotamus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 3:08 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 3:51 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 213 of 224 (852494)
05-12-2019 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by ringo
05-12-2019 3:21 PM


AZPaul3 writes:
Isn’t that one drop of blood, that one minor sin, so insignificant as to be called non-existent?
The context was mathematics. Mathematically, existent is not the same as non-existent.

Pedantic word games. OK. I'll stop here.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 3:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 3:57 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 214 of 224 (852495)
05-12-2019 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by AZPaul3
05-12-2019 3:51 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

Pedantic word games.


Not at all. You're just trying to weasel out of admitting that you were wrong: There is significant good in religion. Soup kitchens, etc.

Hippopotamus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 3:51 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 4:25 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 215 of 224 (852497)
05-12-2019 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by ringo
05-12-2019 3:57 PM


There is significant good in religion. Soup kitchens, etc.

In a cost benefit analysis with the human spirit/capability in the balance as I would perceive one, religion has been and continues to be a yoke around the minds of huge numbers of our people.

You have given me an opportunity to expound a bit and I am much obliged.

How many wars? And of those how many may not have been for religious reasons but were presented as such to a believing populous? Lots. And we all know them. Worldwide.

My speculation is that without religion such wars MAY have been seen for what they were. That would seem more difficult to succeed at with a more aware population unafraid (to the depths of their condemned souls) of critical thinking.

Religion was the hammer used to crush the human spirit to such an extent that they could gather their religious zealots into massive armies to go out and kill in massive numbers breaching no challenge to some god’s will as determined by them, the elite, the Tabernacle, the Temple, the structures behind the strong man’s will.

This continues today. We know this. We see it ... now that we are mentally free to both notice and object.

And then there is religion’s stifling of scientific inquiry setting where human knowledge could have been back by 500 years+- (your mileage may vary). Kudos to the Arabs for such a fruitful science culture until Islam slammed the door on their Golden Age in the 1100’s. After the ancient Greek culture of freely mixing philosophy, art, mysticism and science, the Europeans never allowed a science culture until the Enlightenment in the late 1600’s when the straightjacket of the church over society and over thought began to crumble.

But on the other side of the ledger religions today do comfort some needing a crutch to deal with reality and they have some nice useful charities so there is that, isn’t there.

History may move one to view these good things in religion as insignificant against the full body of religion’s effect on the human species. So insignificant as to be considered non-existent in the comparison. Bad math? No.

Non-existent? For the pedantic, no, but as a literary device it sure gets the point across rather well.

Religion has been a disaster for this species.

Thank you, ringo.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 3:57 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 4:32 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 216 of 224 (852498)
05-12-2019 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by AZPaul3
05-12-2019 4:25 PM


You're moving the goalposts. Again, ask the people in line at the soup kitchen if religion has provided any significant benefits.

Hippopotamus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 4:25 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 4:39 PM ringo has responded
 Message 219 by Taq, posted 05-13-2019 1:04 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3965
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 217 of 224 (852499)
05-12-2019 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by ringo
05-12-2019 4:32 PM


No. Just spouting off. Thanks again for providing the opportunity.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 4:32 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 4:44 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 218 of 224 (852500)
05-12-2019 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by AZPaul3
05-12-2019 4:39 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

Just spouting off.


Indeed.

Hippopotamus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 4:39 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 219 of 224 (852543)
05-13-2019 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by ringo
05-12-2019 4:32 PM


ringo writes:

Again, ask the people in line at the soup kitchen if religion has provided any significant benefits.

“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.” --Christopher Hitchens


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 05-12-2019 4:32 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 05-13-2019 1:08 PM Taq has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 220 of 224 (852544)
05-13-2019 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Taq
05-13-2019 1:04 PM


“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.” --Christopher Hitchens

And petroleum precedes the automobile. Nonetheless, automobiles use petroleum.

Hippopotamus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Taq, posted 05-13-2019 1:04 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Taq, posted 05-13-2019 3:42 PM ringo has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 221 of 224 (852552)
05-13-2019 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by ringo
05-13-2019 1:08 PM


ringo writes:

And petroleum precedes the automobile. Nonetheless, automobiles use petroleum.

That's correct. Automobiles don't use religion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 05-13-2019 1:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by ringo, posted 05-14-2019 11:37 AM Taq has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 222 of 224 (852590)
05-14-2019 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Taq
05-13-2019 3:42 PM


Taq writes:

Automobiles don't use religion.


You seem to be really grasping at straws trying to put down religion.

The point was that religion didn't have to invent decency to have some decency in it.


Hippopotamus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Taq, posted 05-13-2019 3:42 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Taq, posted 05-14-2019 3:59 PM ringo has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 223 of 224 (852615)
05-14-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by ringo
05-14-2019 11:37 AM


ring writes:

You seem to be really grasping at straws trying to put down religion.

Quite the opposite. I am pointing out how theists are grasping at straws to improve the image of religion.

The point was that religion didn't have to invent decency to have some decency in it.

This is why homeless people should thank human decency for their free soup, not religions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by ringo, posted 05-14-2019 11:37 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by ringo, posted 05-14-2019 9:31 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16475
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 224 of 224 (852644)
05-14-2019 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Taq
05-14-2019 3:59 PM


Taq writes:

I am pointing out how theists are grasping at straws to improve the image of religion.


You're pointing at me and I'm no theist, nor am I trying to improve the image of religion. I'm saying that the good in religion is not non-existent.

Taq writes:

This is why homeless people should thank human decency for their free soup, not religions.


You can't just separate human decency from religion like that. Some people get their human decency from religion.

Welcome back, Faith.

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