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Author Topic:   Moral high ground
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 4 of 318 (644481)
12-18-2011 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Butterflytyrant
12-17-2011 11:28 PM


Something else along these lines that I think follows from this or is a cause of this, is that of faith as a virtue. I have been meaning to create a thread about it but I haven't found a need for it.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


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Message 19 of 318 (644571)
12-19-2011 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Tangle
12-19-2011 7:45 AM


Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Hitler either was a Christian
Since every single christian will say that every other christian is "not the real kind of christian", there must be no such thing as a christian.
Well, since there are these people called christians, the "real" ones are any one of them who simply say as much. We can't even EVER get any two christians on this board to agree on enough to say that either one of them is a "true" christian.
Ergo, hitler was a goddamned christian. Deal with it bible thumpers. He might not have acted in accordance with the american bastardization of xtianity, he is a christian. Hell, the motherfucker even had the catholic church on his side.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


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Message 66 of 318 (644853)
12-21-2011 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Portillo
12-21-2011 3:57 AM


Re: I have some data from the Bible to put on the table
All the bad stuff like warring tribes in ancient desert killing one another in the name of their particular deity (which, btw, still happens to this day)? Myth and fable.
Jesus' life (of which there is ZERO contemporary evidence), the flood (again, no evidence), talking snakes and all the good stuff? True, actually happened and how dare you question it.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


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Message 67 of 318 (644854)
12-21-2011 8:09 AM


PD writes:
Too many short posts
And yet you "cheer" the shortest of them all.... just because it agrees with you. Psst, your bias is showing.

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 72 of 318 (644914)
12-21-2011 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2011 11:48 AM


Re: Genocide is more than just killing.
You don't know when it was actually religiously motivated or not.
Even if we grant that just for sake of argument, we can attribute enough atrocities that we know were directly attributed to relgiosity throughout history to say, without hesitation, that religion does not have the so called moral high ground it claims it has. We can give enough examples of people who either commited atrocities in the name of religion, or who were religious, to say that morality is irrespective of religion.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 75 of 318 (644931)
12-21-2011 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2011 3:06 PM


Did he do it in the name of religion?
Yes. A million times yes. What was the entire purpose of the Crusades, CS? To spread christinity to the heathens. How did they do it? Through violence and murder.
but then we're getting into religion being the tool used by those in power to control the individuals... and that ain't really the religions fault either.
You must have some weird definition of religion that I am unfamiliar with. Every atrocity performed in the name of religion has at least some basis on some bastardization of some millenia old text. Religion is that interpratation.
So if you focus on the bad things that people do, I too doubt you'll be able to find dependency on religiousity.
I beg to differ.
Let's just look at history's Persecution of Muslims. There is far too much there for me to quote, but all of those were done under the guise of religion.
Let us also look at The Lord's Resistance Army:
Wiki writes:
The Lord's Resistance Army (also Lord's Resistance Movement or Lakwena Part Two) is a militant group with a syncretic Christian and traditional African religious ideology. The group operates in northern Uganda, South Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Central Africa.[4] The group used to operate mainly in northern Uganda and also in parts of South Sudan, the Central African Republic, and the DRC.
The LRA was formed in 1987 and until about 2007 it was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the "spokesperson" of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Holy Spirit, which the group believes can represent itself in many manifestations.
The group is based on a number of different beliefs including local religious rituals, mysticism, traditional religion, Acholi nationalism and Christianity[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14] and claims to be establishing a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments and local Acholi tradition.[15][16][17] The LRA is accused of widespread human rights violations, including murder, abduction, mutilation, sexual enslavement of women and children and forcing children to participate in hostilities.[18].
Wiki writes:
In January, 1997 the LRA attacked Lamwo, in northern Uganda. More than 400 people were killed, and approximately 100,000 people were displaced.[24]
In May, 2002 the LRA attacked Eastern Equatoria in Sudan. An estimated 450 people were killed, and witnesses state some villagers were forced to walk off a cliff.[24]
On December 25, 2008, the LRA massacred 189 people and abducted 120 children during a concert celebration sponsored by the Catholic church in Faradje, DRC, continuing the attack on December 26. Shortly afterwards, the LRA struck three additional communities: 75 people killed in a church north of Dungu, and the church burned; 48 people killed in Bangadi, and 213 people in Gurba.[25] The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs estimated the death toll as 189 in Faradje, Doruma and Gurba.[25] However, Caritas International estimated the number of victims to be about 500.
Also we have the Albigensian Crusade
Wiki writes:
The Albigensian Crusade or Cathar Crusade (1209—1229) was a 20-year military campaign initiated by the Catholic Church to eliminate Catharism in Languedoc.
But what if you look at the motivations towards the good things that people do?
Yes, let's. Every good deed done in the name of religion can be done by secular affairs. It just so happens that religious orginizations are more readily set up and able to do so, what with all of the leway they have been granted throughout the centuries.
And the individuals usually follow the tenets.
And the individuals following the tenets that say to stone adulterers and apostates? What about the individuals killing warring factions over land that god gave them?

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 77 of 318 (644955)
12-21-2011 6:34 PM


Would he have done it without religion?
Canada "honor killings" on trial
Having daughters that acted like normal Canadian teenagers made Shafia furious, the jury has heard. The girls Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13 dressed in short skirts and flirted with boys
........
"They committed treason from beginning to end, Shafia told the other two accused during one conversation in the car. They betrayed humankind, they betrayed Islam, they betrayed our religion and creed, they betrayed our tradition, they betrayed everything.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 98 of 318 (645166)
12-23-2011 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by purpledawn
12-23-2011 9:08 PM


Re: Christians Off The Hook
No Christians around back then. How many deaths do you find in the NT? I know, "but they adopted the Jewish God, and believe it so they have to justify the deaths even though it wasn't under Christianity."
Why are you trying to drag this thread off topic into christianity bashing? You and the creationists (portillo) are the only ones mentioning christianity. The OP makes NO mention of christianity. Guilty conscience, me thinks...
Some believe Hitler was an Atheist
And they would be wrong, if you bothered to do ANY research (you won't bother though).
It's a shame you decided to deal in some fiction instead of sticking with reality.
It's a shame you pander to christianity while being about as liberal as they come about it....

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 100 of 318 (645173)
12-24-2011 12:32 AM


Two Words
Jim Jones
(I'm sorry if you actually listened to this)

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


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Message 114 of 318 (645218)
12-24-2011 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by GDR
12-24-2011 10:13 AM


You do realize that there is no "atheist doctrine" or atheist holy book for which people can use to justify anything at all, while holy books such as the Quran and Bible DO have text that can be twisted to justify just about any evil thing or even outright dictates such atrocities? Just because you, or any other liberal barely christian don't "believe" it should be twisted in such a manner, or that it should be taken as fable or allegory, doesn't negate the fact that they DO say such things. If you or PD were correct, there should only be ONE sect of christianity: yours. If you, or anyone, can find some atheist manifesto that is necessary for all atheists, or some doctrine that must be ascribed to in order to be a "trve" atheist, I am all ears.....

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 115 of 318 (645226)
12-24-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by purpledawn
12-24-2011 3:38 AM


Re: Numbers From Fiction
The issue between BFT and myself deals with using death tolls from the OT stories and not sticking to reality.
Where in the OP does Butterflytyrant mention the Old Testament, or any particular religion?
If we follow that logic, then since some believe that Hitler was an Atheist, then his death tolls should not be added to the religious tally.
And if we continue to follow BFT's logic, we would be just as prudent to point out to the morons who claim as such that their position is not based on fact and we would also point out the hypocrisy that their position entails which is exactly BFT's point that you are not grasping. You continue to be a soldier of christianity even though this thread is not at all about christianity specifically, but about religion (I would say faith) in general. You act as though it is being said that christianity alone has commited atrocities in the name of a god.
Believing something is true doesn't make it fact.
You feel the need to say this to an avowed atheist.....why? You do realize that there is a significant amount of religionists who DO accept the crazy shit in those holy books to be fact, yes? You do realize those same people are, for example, running for the highest office in this country? Those same people are fucking with our education system as well. If it were the liberal half-christians such as yourself and GDR who were the loudest, I highly doubt we would even have this discussion, let alone this website.....
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 149 of 318 (645356)
12-26-2011 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by purpledawn
12-26-2011 2:45 PM


Re: Religious Reasons
Where in the Bible do they refer to God as a person as in human individual?
There's this guy, named jesus. Maybe you've heard of him?

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


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Message 151 of 318 (645389)
12-26-2011 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by purpledawn
12-26-2011 6:06 PM


Re: Religious Reasons
Do I have to re-quote YOU? You asked:
PD writes:
Where in the Bible do they refer to God as a person as in human individual?
You have quite the number of bible believing christians to dispute the fact that jesus is god and jesus was a MAN who roamed the desert 2011 years ago with. I know full well you dispute a lot of shit typical christians say, but you shouldn't be saying with so much "MY interpretation is the right one, they're wrong" lest you appear as just another one of 'em. The purpose of this thread, much to your chagrin I'm sure, is NOT "why does purpledawn claim a moral highground for her religion and let's make her defend it". I understand you find it hard to believe that christians don't believe the same shit you do, but it's true.... Just because you have apologetics and beliefs lined up to defend some of the shit we sling your way, does NOT mean that churchgoing, bible thumping, throw jesus in your face-he's my lord and savior christians DO believe it AND live the shit.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note: This message resulted in a 1 week suspension - See here

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 189 of 318 (645749)
12-29-2011 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Granny Magda
12-29-2011 8:53 AM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
If you want a fresh perspective on this, I have frequently heard Muslims claiming that the 9/11 attackers were not Muslims. they use exactly the same logic as you employ here. What do you say to that? Ready to let Islam off the hook on that one? Were the terrorists "not real Muslims"?
Not only the 9/11 attackers, but "terrorists" in general are ostracized by liberal Islam just the same as the christians on this board are doing for the atrocities committed in the name of christianity. "No true muslim". However, christians, by and large, are very willing to lay the blame on Islam as a whole.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 910 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


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Message 191 of 318 (645751)
12-29-2011 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by GDR
12-29-2011 2:10 PM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
(and I would suggest that I'm in the majority world wide),
Perhaps the silent majority..... There is plenty of hatred towards Islam in general. Let's just look at how it was portrayed in accusing Obama as being a Muslim... Also look at the big ordeal that surrounded the TV show "American Muslim".
So, fine, say "not me, not me. I'm not a bigot" but that falls on deaf ears when you and people like you are mute about the subject. Sure, there may be a number of liberal christians such as yourself, but you lot are far too quiet and don't put enough distance between your "right version" of christianity and the extremists. I go so far as to say that you enable the extremism by acting as a shield for it.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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