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Author Topic:   Moral high ground
Tangle
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Posts: 9536
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Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


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Message 8 of 318 (644492)
12-18-2011 11:13 AM


I've had it put to me that atheists must be amoral (because morals come from god), that believers must be more moral than me because they believe in God and one even said that there was nothing stopping him raping and murdering except for his belief in god and an afterlife.
The trouble with all these people is that they're universally stupid.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

  
Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 18 of 318 (644569)
12-19-2011 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Chuck77
12-19-2011 7:13 AM


Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Can you summarize your argument in a paragraph or two for all the people who don't feel like reading a frikkin book on a debate forum?
Hitler either was a Christian or he was pretending to be one.
Done.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by hooah212002, posted 12-19-2011 8:06 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 21 of 318 (644573)
12-19-2011 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by hooah212002
12-19-2011 8:06 AM


Re: Nobody does Genocide better Christianity
Well, since there are these people called christians, the "real" ones are any one of them who simply say as much.
I'm pretty much with you on that in that art is defined as something made by an artist and an artist is anyone who says he makes art.
Of course Hitler could have been lying about being a Christian in order to further his political ends but as we can't actually tell the difference between a 'real' Christian and a pretend Christian, it's safest to take him at face value.
btw Catholics aren't Christians apparently; which must come as a bit of a shock to them all.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 25 of 318 (644594)
12-19-2011 12:12 PM


To make a fair comparison across history, we need to adjust for relative population size and weaponry. I'll leave others to do the sums......

Life, don't talk to me about life.

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by frako, posted 12-19-2011 12:16 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 41 of 318 (644697)
12-20-2011 5:40 AM


As well as correcting for relative population sizes and efficiency of weaponry over time, we should also consider correcting for belief system.
We could start by making an assumption that all Stalin's top executive ranks were rabid atheists intent on nothing other than eradicating religion from their countrymen. So maybe that's a hundred people? We could then assume that the remainder of his top staffers have a normal distribution of belief and non-belief and are just following orders.
How can we then allocate individual killings between atheist and believers? I suppose a start would be to say that the distribution of atheists amongst the Russian population would be about what it is on average today - say 10% - and that apart from the top dogs, that distribution will apply to his admin staff and military and civil security forces. So a start would be to say that around 90% of the deaths were down to believers following orders.
We could then argue for relative blame, maybe add a correction factor for relative culpability dependant on distance from the killing decision. Perhaps we could use political and military rank as a proxy, then weight accordingly?
Or we could just say that this whole argument is a crock of shit as no-one fights and dies for atheism. Communism and psychotic totalitarianism was the cause.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

  
Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 85 of 318 (645108)
12-23-2011 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Portillo
12-23-2011 8:42 AM


Re: History for dummies
Portillo writes:
Thats a relief. I was worried that those avowed atheists were killing in the name of atheism.
That's as daft as claiming that because they all have facial hair, that they killed in the name of Moustaches. Perhaps they all read Jane Austin or collected stamps too? Maybe they all had grandfather's whose favourite colour was red?

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 138 of 318 (645330)
12-26-2011 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by purpledawn
12-26-2011 3:33 AM


Re: Religious Reasons
purpledawn writes:
If you killed someone because an atheist wants them dead, is that an atheism-motivated atrocity?
If the atheist was The Godfather, would it be a mafia-motivated atrocity or an atheist-motivated atrocity?

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 154 of 318 (645462)
12-27-2011 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by purpledawn
12-26-2011 6:06 PM


Re: Religious Reasons
Purpedawn writes:
Sigh... The Synoptics do not present Jesus as a supernatural being.
Agreed, he was just a very naughty boy.
(who just happened to perform miracles)

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


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Message 159 of 318 (645510)
12-27-2011 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by New Cat's Eye
12-27-2011 10:54 AM


Re: Relative Death Tolls
Catholic Scientist writes:
It seems silly to me to call God religious. What religion does God follow?
Are you seriously suggesting that God isn't Catholic?
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 172 of 318 (645617)
12-28-2011 1:06 PM


Just as a general point, it's quite revealing that the question 'what religion is God?' or 'what religion is god a member of?' is just too damn embarrassing and revealing to answer.
The concept of God being a Muslim, Hindu or a Baptist is utterly bonkers. Even those that believe in him, seem to know that he's above all that nonsense.
So how come it's so important down here on our little planet?

Life, don't talk to me about life.

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Modulous, posted 12-28-2011 1:50 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
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Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


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Message 207 of 318 (645792)
12-30-2011 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by GDR
12-29-2011 8:21 PM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
GDR writes:
Regardless of what you post I will continue to respect your beliefs. Maybe you might consider the same courtesy for those who don't share your beliefs.
Sadly, I don't think that's actually possible. It's a less extreme form of the Christian homophobe's 'love the sinner but hate the sin.' It's nonsense - beliefs maketh the man, people judge you on them and they can't avoid it.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 212 of 318 (645825)
12-30-2011 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by New Cat's Eye
12-30-2011 10:36 AM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
C S writes:
Here we have two christians calmly expressing themselves to an assholish atheist who spouts nothing but vitriol. And he thinks that he has the moral high ground
Maybe the following quotes from True Christians from the Hitch is Dead thread can show us some true moral high ground:
Dawn Bertot writes:
He was a filthy piece of garbage and a piece of dung. Recieve that which you have reaped Mr Hitchens
speaking of puerile dickheads, did you hear that Hitch died?
Portilo writes:
So like a cockroach, rat, bacteria or pondscum, Hitch did his job.
Artemis writes:
I am glad he is dead, fuck him.
LOL the rationale of a dick sucking bitch like yourself. too funny. eat shit and die.
Maybe not.
But on the assumption that two wrongs don't make a right, can we count the dead again? Or are we all agreed that it's an utterly facile activity?

Life, don't talk to me about life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-30-2011 10:36 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-30-2011 2:04 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 231 by Chuck77, posted 12-30-2011 11:43 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 238 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2011 3:00 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 220 of 318 (645855)
12-30-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Rahvin
12-30-2011 4:31 PM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
Well, the subliminal proposition is that because atheists don't believe in God they are not threatened by the afterlife (or lack of) and so have no reason not to follow their primal lusts.
We can rape and steal, lie and murder, pillage and slander without fear of reprisal by a vengeful god.
Funny how we don't isn't it? You'd think that little piece of evidence - that we behave quite well considering - might carry a little weight, but for the idiots that believe it, it carries none. So we get inane threads like this.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Life, don't talk to me about life.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by hooah212002, posted 12-30-2011 6:05 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 222 of 318 (645867)
12-30-2011 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by hooah212002
12-30-2011 6:05 PM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
Well, their excuse is that god IS and stops us heathens from doing those things, regardless if we believe in it or not.
Woosh - there goes free will.......

Life, don't talk to me about life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by hooah212002, posted 12-30-2011 6:05 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by hooah212002, posted 12-30-2011 6:21 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9536
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 246 of 318 (646003)
01-01-2012 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Chuck77
12-30-2011 11:43 PM


Re: You cant create the utopia until you free people from religion and get rid of it.
Chuck77 writes:
Since you're somewhat new here and still green behind the ears here's a little advice
Thanks for the advice Chuck, I am new here but not quite green enough not to notice the banned symbol next to your name or recognise cant when I see it. Enjoy the enforced rest.
To get back on topic.
Given that god has created us in order to die (but could obviously have done it differently), why is how many either side of this argument kills of any relevance to morality? Surely simply by just creating the mortality of all life, he has made killing a trivial issue in his own terms? So who are we to think any differentlty?

Life, don't talk to me about life.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by crashfrog, posted 01-01-2012 6:37 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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