Summations Only

Bush for years very vocally and openly supported throwing people in jail for homosexual acts. Christians (in my area at least) love to use GWB as an example of a real christian. I highly doubt you can apply "temporary" to what equates to as years.

Biblical atrocities are fictional. Myths and fables.

Perhaps you could address my Martin Luther quote. Would you count the father of Protestantism as a Christian?

Or how guns are responsible for firearm related deaths?*runs away and takes cover* Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Participants:Please don't let the true Christian issue take over the topic. My suggestion (not an edict) is to use the dictionary definition of a Christian for the purpose of this thread.Do not let this issue drag out much longer.Also remember this isn't a chat page. Too many short posts.As usual, do not respond to this message.Thanks
AdminPD

All the bad stuff like warring tribes in ancient desert killing one another in the name of their particular deity (which, btw, still happens to this day)? Myth and fable.Jesus' life (of which there is ZERO contemporary evidence), the flood (again, no evidence), talking snakes and all the good stuff? True, actually happened and how dare you question it.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

And yet you "cheer" the shortest of them all.... just because it agrees with you. Psst, your bias is showing.

While it is true that many of the stories in the Bible are simply myths and fables; and the stories where there is some reason to think did actually happen it is pretty certain that accounts are both exaggerated and slanted to fit the authors position, the genocide committed by Christianity since Biblical times is pretty well documented.Christianity simply has never played nicely with any other belief system and seldom even plays nicely with other Christians.

One suspects that those same Christians you refer to do not regard throwing homosexuals in jail as being immoral. Therefore Bush is moral. Therefore, a True Christian.

And how much responsibility we can ascribe to the religion...I don't think we can get a good number on the amount of deaths "caused by christianity" or anything like that.You don't know when it was actually religiously motivated or not.

Haha, I was kinda expecting chuck or phat to admit this.

Even if we grant that just for sake of argument, we can attribute enough atrocities that we know were directly attributed to relgiosity throughout history to say, without hesitation, that religion does not have the so called moral high ground it claims it has. We can give enough examples of people who either commited atrocities in the name of religion, or who were religious, to say that morality is irrespective of religion.

So lets take a Crusade, shit-tons of mulsims killed in the name of Christianity, right? So, this one Crusader kills this one muslim. Did he do it in the name of religion? Was he forced into his situation and then had to defend himself? Did the religion really motivate his killing? Can we really say?Now, if you zoom out, you could ascribe religious motivation the whole battle, but then we're getting into religion being the tool used by those in power to control the individuals... and that ain't really the religions fault either. So if you focus on the bad things that people do, I too doubt you'll be able to find dependency on religiousity.But what if you look at the motivations towards the good things that people do?I think every hospital here in St. Louis is tied to some particular religion. Too, the shelters and food pantries are as well.I think its easier to ascribe the moral goodness to the actual religion, itself, than it is the badness, because I don't see a lot of moral badness being proscribed as tenets of religion... And the individuals usually follow the tenets.

Well we can really say that atrocities commited by the Templars where because of religion. Noone was forced to be a templar, in order to be one you had to be a Knight and give all your belongins to the Templar order aka only religius fanatics would do that. And the Templars served directly under the Pope. So in the case of the Templars you can definitivly say it was religions fault.In the case of hitler one can make the same case but hasto take in to account the 400 year propaganda against the jews in europe supported by kings and popes alike. As to why there was a haterd for the jews in europe you have the chiken and the eg question christians hated them because they where money lenders and that was a big no no way up on the list of no nos like a woman wearing pants no no. But they where moneylenders because noone let them do anything else because they dint like them. Hitler used this hatred for the jews to gain favore with the curch and to rally the people to his cause. Fanatic religius leader: kill all americans cause god says so he gave me a vision we should strike now!!!!
his flock:" killem killem arrrrrrrrrrrgggggg!!!!"
Atheist: What did you eat when you had the vision? Did you consume any halucinogens? Whats your temperature you might be having health problems causing your visions. So there are no Atheist organisations that help people???Effort Sisyphus: Atheist Charities
This site says otherwise Isnt it nice how they have a mass for the homles first where they haveto wait in huger for an hour before they are given food.

Yes. A million times yes. What was the entire purpose of the Crusades, CS? To spread christinity to the heathens. How did they do it? Through violence and murder. You must have some weird definition of religion that I am unfamiliar with. Every atrocity performed in the name of religion has at least some basis on some bastardization of some millenia old text. Religion is that interpratation. I beg to differ.Let's just look at history's Persecution of Muslims. There is far too much there for me to quote, but all of those were done under the guise of religion.Let us also look at The Lord's Resistance Army: Also we have the Albigensian CrusadeYes, let's. Every good deed done in the name of religion can be done by secular affairs. It just so happens that religious orginizations are more readily set up and able to do so, what with all of the leway they have been granted throughout the centuries. And the individuals following the tenets that say to stone adulterers and apostates? What about the individuals killing warring factions over land that god gave them?