Hi jaywill,
I think you're being rather unreasonable here.
After all, just because someone does not think that any fulfilled prophecy exists, doesn't mean that they will never believe it. If someone is genuinely of the opinion that no fulfilled prophecy has been shown to exist, you need to take them at their word, not assume that their lack of belief is due to bias. That is bad faith on your part and no way to conduct a discussion.
Consider;
Can you show me any genuine examples of alien abduction? No? If not, I will have to conclude that you are biased against aliens. Clearly no example could be good enough for you.
Can you show me a real example of fairies being photographed at the bottom of someone's garden? Just one or two? No? Then I shall assume that you are simply being closed minded because you hate fairies.
Can you show me an example of a purely Islamic prophecy which has been fulfilled? If not, then I have no choice but to judge that your hatred of Islam has blinded you to the truth of the words of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). You hater you.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
In contrast, it would seem perfectly reasonable to demand that ramoss give you a set of criteria by that would convince him that a prophecy is genuine. That would be completely fair. But demanding that ramoss provide examples of things that he doesn't believe exist is pointless.
I think you would be better off trying to reach agreement on what a fulfilled prophecy ought to look like. Then, if you can agree on that, you can move on to test the Bible's prophecies against those criteria. that would seem like a reasonable approach. Here is one attempt to do this, taken from
The theory of evolution What scientists believe it is and isn`t
quote:
Criteria of a "real" prophecy:
In order for a prophecy to be considered a truly supernaturally inspired prediction, one might argue that it should meet a number of criteria.
In the text below:
"Prophecy" refers to a prediction of the future, and
"Event" is the happening that is said to fulfill the prophecy.
Six suggested criteria are:
1 The prophecy must be clear and unambiguous. It must not allow for a multitude of possible events. For example, Ezekiel 39 fails this test. It makes a prediction involving two military powers: Gog and Magog. "Gog has been interpreted as Gyges, king of Lydia, the Goths, and even a modern or future leader of Russia. Magaog has been interpreted as the Scythains, the Chaldeans, the Huns and modern-day Russia among others." Almost any military conflict in history could be cited as a fulfilment of this prophecy.
2 The event must be a fulfillment of the prediction. That is, the prophecy and the event must be related. Some feel that Isaiah 7:14 predicts the virgin birth of Jesus. It is commonly quoted at Christmas time. But it can be argued that Isaiah's prediction describes a birth which happened centuries before Jesus, and may or may not have been fulfilled in the 8th century BCE. Jesus was born circa 4 to 7 BCE.
3 The event must have actually happened. Countless predictions of the end of the world have failed; the world continued as normal afterwards. Ideally, there should be historical or archaeological evidence that the event really occurred.
4 The prophecy must have happened before the event. The book of Daniel describes a Jewish hero, Daniel, who many believe lived at the beginning of the 6th century BCE. It discusses the rise of various empires in Daniel's future. But religious liberals generally believe that the book was written about 166 BCE. If the liberals are correct, then most of the predictions in the book about the rise of various empires were not predictions of the future inspired by the Holy Spirit. They were actually historical recollections of the past written after the events really happened.
5 The event must not have been artificially created by a person who knew of the prophecy, with the intent of fulfilling it. For example, during a crucifixion by the Roman army, the legs of the victims were generally broken. This hastened their death by asphyxiation. But the Gospels record that Jesus' bones were not broken. When the Roman guards came to break his legs, they found that he had already died. There are a number of possible scenarios about this event. Three are:
i As John 19:31-37 states, this happened "... that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken..." In this case, the prophecy came true in spite of the odds against it happening.
ii Jesus might have been physically exhausted as a result of his scouring and blood loss. He may have died on the stake or cross earlier than expected. Thus the Roman soldiers had no need to break his legs. Jesus intact legs were correctly reported by the Gospel writer(s).
iii The guards might have followed standard procedure by breaking his legs. But the author(s) of the Gospel of John may have ignored this event, and written that it did not happen, in order that a prophecy from the Hebrew Scriptures would be fulfilled.
In this example, it would be impossible to tell if the prophecy:
i Came true because it was divinely inspired.
ii Came true by chance, due to an accidental occurrence.
iii Did not come true, but was fraudulently reported as having happening. Reporting of the event was falsified in order to make it appear as if the prediction in the Hebrew Scriptures came true.
6 The prophecy must not have been a logical guess. For example, a person in mid-1939 who prophesized that a European war would break out before 1950 would simply have been describing the inevitable outcome of pre-existing Nazi expansion plans and activities. Hundreds of millions of people at that time expected a European war. A physic might predict a major volcanic eruption and a serious earthquake rated at over six on the Richter scale somewhere in the world during the current year. But these events are so likely to occur each year that the prophecy would be a sure thing. Similarly an ancient prophet might notice the Assyrian army approaching Israel from the East, conquering country after country in its path. He might quite logically guess that Israel was next.
That's just an example, but it is the kind of thing you should be seeking, rather than asking ramoss to provide examples, which just comes across as silly.
You are not a mind reader. There's no point in you sitting there and telling ramoss what he thinks. If you are interested in what ramoss thinks, you could try asking him, instead of scolding him for attitudes that you merely imagine him to hold.
Just my two cents.
Mutate and Survive
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