Summations Only

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[Jar]
You claim that Isaiah 9 refers to Jesus.
Here is the part you have quoted:

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DB writes:

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Isa 9 [a]Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan
2 The people walking in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of deep darkness
a light has dawned.
3 You have enlarged the nation
and increased their joy;
they rejoice before you
as people rejoice at the harvest,
as warriors rejoice
when dividing the plunder.
4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat,
you have shattered
the yoke that burdens them,
the bar across their shoulders,
the rod of their oppressor.
5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle
and every garment rolled in blood
will be destined for burning,
will be fuel for the fire.
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

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Now let's look at it in detail. Where does that refer to Jesus? Start by showing when Jesus ruled on David's throne and over David's kingdom?

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[Jar] But I am not an unbeliever, rather a very devout Cradle Creedal Christian who is very active in the faith, have taught adult and child Sunday school, design and maintain several Christian church websites, helped found Mission and build churches and the product of education in a Christian School.

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Even you admit that it is so far failed prophecy if it did refer to Jesus, and that makes it just plain silly.

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Bs'd
Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.
But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?
Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.
Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?
But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".

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BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:

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Isaiah 44:6 This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

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It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."

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But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".

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No trinity.

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Another example of a pronoun:

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Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are Y-H-W-H.

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As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.

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Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.

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So no three persons in God.

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Another one:

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Isaiah 44:6 This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

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Clear what? It doesn't say: This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.

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No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.

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Another one:

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Joel 2:27 Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;

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Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.

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I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.

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And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.

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In the service of Y-H-W-H,

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Eliyahu, light unto the nations

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"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

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"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

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Bs'd
The simple facts are: There are no 100 and no 300 messianic prophecies. Doesn't exist.

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JC obviously did NOT fulfill the messianic prophecies.

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So what the Christians do, is ripping random Tanach texts out of context, texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and present them as "messianic prophecies fulfilled by JC".

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Examples how the NT does that can be seen here: NT prophecies - MountZion

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Examples how the Christians do that, can be found here: 324x0 - MountZion

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But this is of course lying and cheating.

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When you treat the text like that, then you can turn anybody you want into the messiah, whether it is Napoleon Bonaparte, Barak Obama, David Koresh, or the rooster of Moshe:

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A Chassidic Rabbi Makes a Startling Discovery

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My name is Moshe and I am a Chassidic Jew who has, from my youth, learned the words of our Holy Prophets, and has been puzzled by their meaning.
Then, on the day before Yom Kippur, I contemplated the solemnity of the day and was made aware of the amazing meaning of G-d's words. I recognized the fulfillment of 42 Messianic prophecies of the Tenach, and they changed my life forever.

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1. Early in the morning I went to get my rooster to fulfill the ancient custom. There in the light I looked into his eyes and saw fulfilled the words, 'I am the rooster* who has seen affliction.' (Lam. 3:1)

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2. I took him and swung him around my head as the verse says, 'And he circled his head**.' (Lam 3:5)

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3. I moved my hands as I swirled him, as it says, 'Only against me did he turn his hand.' (Lam 3:3)

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4. With this he leaped from my hand and started to run. As it says, 'They have run away without seeing good.' (Job 9:25)

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5. I cried a short pray to HaShem as it says, 'My words I say out of the bitterness of my soul.' (Job 10:1)

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6. He ran from me, fulfilling the verse, 'To me they showed their back and not their face.' (Jer. 32:33)

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7/8. I borrowed a cane from a man near me so as to catch him with the rounded edge, as the verse says, 'And Moshe took the stick.' (Ex. 4:20, Num 20:8)

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9/10. I tried to catch him with the hook, but only the blows of the cane hit his back as it says, 'Afflicted by the rod of his anger.' (Lam. 3:1 and it also says, 'I struck you with the blows of an enemy.' (Jer. 30:12)

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11. He turned to me and I got him right on the cheek fulfilling the verse, 'I have offered my cheek to the one who strikes me.' (Lam. 3:30)

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12. He ran from me into a dark corner and I followed after him, as the verse says, 'He has led me and driven me into the darkness and not light.'
(Lam. 3:2)

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13. I had him there in the corner as it says; 'All her pursuers overtook her in the small place.' (Lam. 1:3)

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14. He stood there silent, as he had been to this time in fulfillment of the words of the prophet, 'He was persecuted and afflicted, be he did not open his mouth.' (Is. 53:7)

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15. In that corner there was just nowhere for him to hide from me as the verse says, 'Can a person hide in a concealed place, and I should not see him?' (Jer. 23:25)

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16. He was now trapped as the verse says, 'He has walled me in so I cannot escape.' (Lam. 3:7)

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17. In his eyes I could see him praying silently to HaShem, 'My G-d my G-d why have you forsaken me?' (Psalm 22:1)

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18. Clearly it was fulfilled for him, 'The mighty ones of Bashan encircle me.' (Psalm 22:13)

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19. I grabbed him and he started to call out to HaShem.
As the verse says, 'My G-d, I call to you by day and you do not answer and by night and there is no respite.' (Psalm 22:3)

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20. But there was no answer as it says, 'Though I would scream out and plead he shut out my prayer.' (Lam. 3:8)

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21. It was clearly the end. I grabbed him and took my place in the line waiting to give my rooster to the shochet (ritual slaughterer.) He was silent, 'Like a sheep being led to the slaughter or a ewe to her sharers he did not open his mouth.' (Is. 53:7)

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22. The shochet took him by the neck as it says; 'He grasped me by the neck.' (Job 16:12)

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23. With that he screamed out, 'Be not far from me because distress is near and there is none to help me.' (Psalm 22:12)

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24. He also said, 'Save my soul from the sword.' (Psalm 22:21)

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25. He slaughtered him fulfilling 'He was removed from the living land.' (Is. 53:8)

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26. He let the blood fall on the floor, as it says, 'I am poured out like water.' (Psalm 22:15)

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27. I took the dead chicken and gazed at it as the prophet says, 'They have looked upon me whom they have pierced.' (Zech 12:10)

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28/29. I took it to be made kosher. We separated it into pieces snapping it's bones as the verses say, 'All my bones became disjointed.' (Psalm 22:15) 'He has broken my bones.' (Lam 3:4)

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30. Then I took him home to cook. My wife removed the skin as it says, 'He has worn away my flesh and skin.' (Lam. 3:4)

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31. She placed him in a pot with water, as it says, 'For the waters have reached unto my soul.' (Psalm 69:2)

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32. She added many spices as it says, 'And she gave ...many spices.' (1 Kings 10:10)

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33. She covered up the pot so it could cook as it says; 'He has placed me in darkness.' (Lam 3:6)

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34. The smell of it filled the room as it says, 'That the spices may flow out.' (Song 4:16)

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35. After that it was served on the table and we gazed upon it as the verse says, 'I count my bones and they gaze and look upon me.' (Psalm 22:18)

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36. He was divided among the members of my family, as it says, 'Therefore I will divide him among the many.' (Is. 53:12)

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37/38. We rejoiced and sang as we ate him, as it says, 'I have become a thing of laughter for my people, they sing all day long.' (Lam. 3:14) 'In him our hearts were joyful.' (Psalm 33:21)

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39/40/41. After which we were full and praised G-d as it says, 'You shall eat and be satisfied and praise HaShem your G-d.' (Deut. 6:11,8:10,11:15).

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42. We truly saw the goodness of G-d as it say, 'You should taste and see that HaShem is good.' (Psalm 34:9)

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There were many more messianic prophecies that I could have added that applied to my messianic rooster. Many more he will fulfill when he comes back.

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In all seriousness the above example is no different then the lists claiming 200/300/400 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. They claim the odds against a single person fulfilling them are astronomical. Or of their claims that passages like Psalms 22, or Isaiah 53 are about their messiah/god. Consider this well when you see or hear the claims made by missionaries or just simple Christians who you may meet. If not there may be a prophecy that does really apply: 'They are a people bereft of council and they don't have understanding.'

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* In Hebrew the word 'gever' means both 'man' and 'rooster'berew
** In Hebrew the word is resh aleph shin, which can be read as 'rosh' head'

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Moshe Shulman, 2000

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