Summations Only

Bs'd>> Who are the three divine personalities Isaiah 48:11-18 (Yeshaiah Hanavi)
speaks about? "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I
am the first and I am the last. (Only God is eternal.) My own hand laid the
foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens (the
Creator is speaking)-, . . . And now the Sovereign Lord (one divine
personality) has sent me (the speaker is eternal and the Creator, and
therefore a second divine personality), with his Spirit (a third divine
personality).
## The writer here conveniently leaves out the key passage that explains this verse, he gives there '' Here is the whole passage: "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I
am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the
foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens,Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came o be I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me with his Spirit. Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, Here is my comment:"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I
am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the
foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens, [this is God speaking] Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he [here is the part left out by the other guy. Here is spoken ABOUT God, in the third person, that means that here already is not God speaking, but somebody else (Isaiah) ABOUT God] shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His [again third person] arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, [also this is Isaiah speaking; a fysical human being can not draw near to God] hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came to be [this speaks about the decree against Sancherib] I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me [the me is Isaiah] with his Spirit. [the spirit of God is the power of God, that makes Isaiah a prophet. It is not a separate God] Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) [again in the third person, not God is speaking here but Isaiah] your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, .

​

.In the service of Y-H-W-H,Eliyahu, light unto the nations"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5.

​

.

Bs'dPsalm 2 is speaking about king David. King David is the anointed one ( (messiah means 'anointed one'), see I Samuel 16:12-13. Here the prophet Samuel anointed him, something that never happened to Jesus, he was never anointed by a prophet, but only by a sinful woman, something that means nothing of course."I have set my king upon Zion, my holy hill." King David reigned from Zion, he lived there and is buried there, but to Jesus nothing of this applies, he was never a king, and he never ruled from mount Zion."He said to me; You are My son, today have I begotten you." This does not mean that king David was a physical son of God. The term son of God is used for people or angels who are especially beloved or favored by God, as we can see in Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, and Psalm 82:6, 89:6, and many other verses. Verse 8: "Ask of me and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potters vessel." All this applies to King David, God gave him victory over all his adversaries, but nothing of this applies to Jesus. The claim that Jesus is going to do this after his second coming is a worthless claim because everybody can make a claim like that. Therefore it is absurd to say that this applies to Jesus in stead of King David.
setstats
Another Christian claim is that the Psalm says: "Kiss the son, or he will be angry", but this is a mistranslation. The word translated with "son" is "bar". And that means in Hebrew "pure", and not "son". Only in Aramaic does it mean son, but not in Hebrew. And the Psalms are written in Hebrew, therefore it doesn't make sense to translate this word as if it is Aramaic.
Therefore it says: "Worship in purity".Nowhere in the Psalms is the word "bar" used for "son" or "heir".It is used for "pure", see Psalm 24:4; "The one who has clean hands and a PURE heart".And Psalm 19:8; "the commandment of Y-H-W-H is PURE, enlightening the eyes."And Psalm 73:1 "Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are PURE in heart."
There is not a single example in the Psalms where the word "bar" is used as "son"..

​

.In the service of Y-H-W-H,Eliyahu, light unto the nations"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5.

​

.

Bs'dI know!"Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what Y-H-W-H says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, Let my son go, so he may worship me. But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’
Ex 4.

​

.In the service of Y-H-W-H,Eliyahu, light unto the nations"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5.

​

.

quote:

---

Bs'd
The simple facts are: There are no 100 and no 300 messianic prophecies. Doesn't exist.

​

JC obviously did NOT fulfill the messianic prophecies.

​

So what the Christians do, is ripping random Tanach texts out of context, texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and present them as "messianic prophecies fulfilled by JC".

​

Examples how the NT does that can be seen here: NT prophecies - MountZion

​

Examples how the Christians do that, can be found here: 324x0 - MountZion

​

But this is of course lying and cheating.

​

When you treat the text like that, then you can turn anybody you want into the messiah, whether it is Napoleon Bonaparte, Barak Obama, David Koresh, or the rooster of Moshe:

​

A Chassidic Rabbi Makes a Startling Discovery

​

My name is Moshe and I am a Chassidic Jew who has, from my youth, learned the words of our Holy Prophets, and has been puzzled by their meaning.
Then, on the day before Yom Kippur, I contemplated the solemnity of the day and was made aware of the amazing meaning of G-d's words. I recognized the fulfillment of 42 Messianic prophecies of the Tenach, and they changed my life forever.

​

1. Early in the morning I went to get my rooster to fulfill the ancient custom. There in the light I looked into his eyes and saw fulfilled the words, 'I am the rooster* who has seen affliction.' (Lam. 3:1)

​

2. I took him and swung him around my head as the verse says, 'And he circled his head**.' (Lam 3:5)

​

3. I moved my hands as I swirled him, as it says, 'Only against me did he turn his hand.' (Lam 3:3)

​

4. With this he leaped from my hand and started to run. As it says, 'They have run away without seeing good.' (Job 9:25)

​

5. I cried a short pray to HaShem as it says, 'My words I say out of the bitterness of my soul.' (Job 10:1)

​

6. He ran from me, fulfilling the verse, 'To me they showed their back and not their face.' (Jer. 32:33)

​

7/8. I borrowed a cane from a man near me so as to catch him with the rounded edge, as the verse says, 'And Moshe took the stick.' (Ex. 4:20, Num 20:8)

​

9/10. I tried to catch him with the hook, but only the blows of the cane hit his back as it says, 'Afflicted by the rod of his anger.' (Lam. 3:1 and it also says, 'I struck you with the blows of an enemy.' (Jer. 30:12)

​

11. He turned to me and I got him right on the cheek fulfilling the verse, 'I have offered my cheek to the one who strikes me.' (Lam. 3:30)

​

12. He ran from me into a dark corner and I followed after him, as the verse says, 'He has led me and driven me into the darkness and not light.'
(Lam. 3:2)

​

13. I had him there in the corner as it says; 'All her pursuers overtook her in the small place.' (Lam. 1:3)

​

14. He stood there silent, as he had been to this time in fulfillment of the words of the prophet, 'He was persecuted and afflicted, be he did not open his mouth.' (Is. 53:7)

​

15. In that corner there was just nowhere for him to hide from me as the verse says, 'Can a person hide in a concealed place, and I should not see him?' (Jer. 23:25)

​

16. He was now trapped as the verse says, 'He has walled me in so I cannot escape.' (Lam. 3:7)

​

17. In his eyes I could see him praying silently to HaShem, 'My G-d my G-d why have you forsaken me?' (Psalm 22:1)

​

18. Clearly it was fulfilled for him, 'The mighty ones of Bashan encircle me.' (Psalm 22:13)

​

19. I grabbed him and he started to call out to HaShem.
As the verse says, 'My G-d, I call to you by day and you do not answer and by night and there is no respite.' (Psalm 22:3)

​

20. But there was no answer as it says, 'Though I would scream out and plead he shut out my prayer.' (Lam. 3:8)

​

21. It was clearly the end. I grabbed him and took my place in the line waiting to give my rooster to the shochet (ritual slaughterer.) He was silent, 'Like a sheep being led to the slaughter or a ewe to her sharers he did not open his mouth.' (Is. 53:7)

​

22. The shochet took him by the neck as it says; 'He grasped me by the neck.' (Job 16:12)

​

23. With that he screamed out, 'Be not far from me because distress is near and there is none to help me.' (Psalm 22:12)

​

24. He also said, 'Save my soul from the sword.' (Psalm 22:21)

​

25. He slaughtered him fulfilling 'He was removed from the living land.' (Is. 53:8)

​

26. He let the blood fall on the floor, as it says, 'I am poured out like water.' (Psalm 22:15)

​

27. I took the dead chicken and gazed at it as the prophet says, 'They have looked upon me whom they have pierced.' (Zech 12:10)

​

28/29. I took it to be made kosher. We separated it into pieces snapping it's bones as the verses say, 'All my bones became disjointed.' (Psalm 22:15) 'He has broken my bones.' (Lam 3:4)

​

30. Then I took him home to cook. My wife removed the skin as it says, 'He has worn away my flesh and skin.' (Lam. 3:4)

​

31. She placed him in a pot with water, as it says, 'For the waters have reached unto my soul.' (Psalm 69:2)

​

32. She added many spices as it says, 'And she gave ...many spices.' (1 Kings 10:10)

​

33. She covered up the pot so it could cook as it says; 'He has placed me in darkness.' (Lam 3:6)

​

34. The smell of it filled the room as it says, 'That the spices may flow out.' (Song 4:16)

​

35. After that it was served on the table and we gazed upon it as the verse says, 'I count my bones and they gaze and look upon me.' (Psalm 22:18)

​

36. He was divided among the members of my family, as it says, 'Therefore I will divide him among the many.' (Is. 53:12)

​

37/38. We rejoiced and sang as we ate him, as it says, 'I have become a thing of laughter for my people, they sing all day long.' (Lam. 3:14) 'In him our hearts were joyful.' (Psalm 33:21)

​

39/40/41. After which we were full and praised G-d as it says, 'You shall eat and be satisfied and praise HaShem your G-d.' (Deut. 6:11,8:10,11:15).

​

42. We truly saw the goodness of G-d as it say, 'You should taste and see that HaShem is good.' (Psalm 34:9)

​

There were many more messianic prophecies that I could have added that applied to my messianic rooster. Many more he will fulfill when he comes back.

​

In all seriousness the above example is no different then the lists claiming 200/300/400 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. They claim the odds against a single person fulfilling them are astronomical. Or of their claims that passages like Psalms 22, or Isaiah 53 are about their messiah/god. Consider this well when you see or hear the claims made by missionaries or just simple Christians who you may meet. If not there may be a prophecy that does really apply: 'They are a people bereft of council and they don't have understanding.'

​

* In Hebrew the word 'gever' means both 'man' and 'rooster'berew
** In Hebrew the word is resh aleph shin, which can be read as 'rosh' head'

​

Moshe Shulman, 2000

---

This post is not only sad and reprehensible, it is blasphemous as you compare the sacrifice Messiah made in propitiation for YOUR sins as you place a chicken in His place in order to cheapen what He did for you on Calvary’s Cross.That you can read those OT prophetic passages and not recognize Jesus in them speaks volumes regarding the severity of your spiritual blindness . I love the Jew so much because salvation came to this world by way of the Jew yet I mourn that in these end times so many of you remain completely blind to the relationship you could have with G-D if only you would seek Him with an open heart rather than with a closed fist.Tell me this my spiritually blind friend, the Messiah is prophesied to come and save the Jews throughout the Old Testament, I say He came first 2000 years ago, and is preparing to return for His children and to judge this world at the end of this Age; when, if ever do you see Messiah coming for the first time if you reject Jesus Christ as Messiah even though He Himself said that is who He IS? Remember Elliyahu, Jesus Christ was either a LIAR, a LUNATIC or the LORD. All of the available historical evidence supports Him being the Lord and all of your childish denials and legalistic interpretations of scripture will NEVER change that FACT.Again, you have my sorrow and my sympathy for your rejection of Messiah, I will pray that the scales are removed from your eyes before its too late for you.

Yet you failed to show that even ONE of your so called Prophecies referred to Jesus.I will pray that the scales are removed from your eyes before its too late for you.Honestly though, when Jesus does come in judgement I imagine that he will just chuckle softly and pat you on your head; maybe even give you a "Good Effort" trophy so you don't feel too hurt.

If you go back to the post you replied to you can see that I didn't claim any of that. I don't make any claim that Jesus fulfilled all prophesies. Most of the prophesies were meant to apply to the Israeli nation and not the messiah anyway.Here is one possible way of looking at it. Let us assume that Jesus is nothing more than a man, the same as any other man. (Personally I believe more that that.)He grows up in an environment where he is immersed in the Hebrew Scriptures. In this study He starts to see Himself in the narratives. Now let's face it, there are many conflicting expectations for a messiah and the most common one was that a messiah would lead the Jews in the defeat of their enemies and rebuild the Temple. That was understood by all of the other aspiring messiahs such as Judas Maccabeus, Simon bar Kokhba and all of the others in between.Jesus however takes a different message from the Scriptures. He says that it is the Romans who are the enemy but that it's evil itself, and that the weapon that defeats evil is not the sword but love. Jesus goes on to say that He is the replacement and that the temple exists in the heart of his followers.So Jesus sees himself as the messiah of the Scriptures but in ways that hadn't been understood previously. He understood the prophesies in a general sense and consciously went around fulfilling them to a degree. He intentionally rode a donkey into Jerusalem so that first century Jews would understand what was going on, and the same for His quote from Psalm 22 on the cross.The psalm 22 quote was obviously meant to be for the Israeli nation but Jesus saw himself as standing in for the nation and took it on himself.The question is then whether or not Jesus was wrong in His understanding or even delusional? He wouldn't be the first or last to have a messianic complex.It all comes back to what happened on the first Easter day. Was Jesus resurrected? If He was then God the Father vindicated and confirmed Jesus' message. If not then Jesus was just another failed messiah.In order to understand what Jesus was doing we need the OT Scriptures but in order to understand God's message for us in the OT we need the NT. All of that though is dependent on whether or not Jesus Christ was bodily resurrected.

LOLYep,...
It doesn't make sense UNLESS you comprehend the WORD i.e.; Truth.In John 14 Christ explains EXPLICITLY that he personifies Truth, the ideal.
Christ identifies himself as the spirit of Truth facing down the Pharisees and the lies they made out of the Old Testament.Truth has a father, which is the ever unfolding Reality within which the living exist and must bow down.EVEN if your reasoning from scripture disagrees..., with or without the Bible,... Truth is Lord of the living in the Reality which is Almighty for all life.

You ignore that Elijah DID come back in 32AD.Malachi 3
1 I will send my messenger, (The Elijah in 32AD), who will prepare the way, (Jesus: I am the way John 14:6), before me, (God).
Then, (the day of my messenger), suddenly the Lord, (The Elijah) you are seeking will come to his temple: (i.e.; John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple he that sent me, [i.e.; Elijah], is true); the messenger of the covenant (of Moses: Deut 18:15), whom you desire, will come, says the LORD Almighty.
2 But who (Christian or Jew, or atheist), can endure the day of his, (The Elijah), coming?
Who can stand (it) when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire, (Matt 3:1: He will fire-baptize with the fan in his hand) or a launderer’s soap
3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites (with Holocaust), and refine them like gold and silver.
Then, (in Universal Christianity), the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness (for 1000 years of Roman universal Christian, the Age of Monasticism),
4 and the offerings of Judah and (the New) Jerusalem [Rev 21:16] will be acceptable to the LORD, as in days gone by, as in former years (for a millennium).

Utter bullshit from kof2u who continues just just make shit up and pretend that it is actually in the Bible.Classic example of perverting what was actually written.What a sad, pathetic troll kof2u is.

Well, is that story true?? Sounds like a literary device to me...Seems to me that most people interpret the messanger to be John the BaptistEdited by ramoss, : No reason given.

Bs'dThe fact you think that they are prophecies, speaks volumes regarding the severity of your spiritual blindness.Ripping Tanach texts which have no bearing whatsoever on the messiah out of context, and then presenting them as "messianic prophecies", is lying and cheating. All through history there were many MANY people who claimed to be God or the messiah.They usually end up in a mental asylum. JC was not so lucky. JC did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. All your denials and messianic interpretations of texts which have obviously no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, will NEVER change that fact.And whether or not JC was a lunatic; it is for us now, 2000 years later, hard to asess the mental state of JC. His family, that lived with him, were in a much better position to do that. Let's see what they say about it: "20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family\[b\] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, He is out of his mind."
Mark 3 He wasn't the messiah, because he didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies.He was also a false prophet.And it also strikes me as odd, that somebody who cannot count to two, who thinks that a "God the Father" and a "god the son", that that is only one God, that somebody like that comes to tell me that I am blinded.But don't worry, there comes a time that God will remove the veil from the goyiem, and then you too will be able to count to two again:"On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine
the best of meats and the finest of wines.
7 On this mountain he will destroy
the shroud that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations;"
Isaiah 7.

​

.In the service of Y-H-W-H,Eliyahu, light unto the nations"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5.

​

.Edited by Eliyahu, : No reason given.

Bs'dRipping Tanach texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and then presenting them as "messianic prophecies", what they obviously are not, THAT is making lies out of the Tanach.When the Bible teaches "God is ONE", and then going around telling everybody that God is three, THAT is turning the Bible into a lie.God's punishment for people who do that, will be severe."Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Isaiah 5:20WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THREE ONE AND ONE THREE!!.

​

.In the service of Y-H-W-H,Eliyahu, light unto the nations"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5.

​

.

Nonsense.You are just bias and unreasonable.Clearly, as secular thinker, Truth is the equivalent of a messiah for mankind, because in seeing reality for what it is, both friend and foe, man can utilize the forces of (God) Nature to advantage and avoid the consequences that lead to the second death, of Extinction of the whole species.That Jesus said it, Truth is the son-of-God, and the Rabbi of 32AD were offended made sense then, before Empirical Sciences could distinguish between truth and falsehood.But you know better.
Truth is not our god, but certainly the lord we need seek to be saved.
The Almighty is the ever unfolding Reality that men must face.If Reality is not your god, then as if jealous of the fantasy you live by, the almighty facts-of-life will convict you of insanity by definition.God is Reality, clearly, because we must bow to it, while Truth is the son sired in its wake, as Reality unfolds.

How do you interpret the story when you read it, and see the correspondences between the life of Elijah in 800BC and what Jesus did in 32AD?(Elijah is the ONLY explicit promise in the Tanakh that predicts someone, a physical person, returning to earth as if immortal for 800years.)They both did the same miracles, which was traditional supposed to identify Elijah when would come back.Both Elijah and Jesus raised the deadBoth Elijah and Jesus were immortal.Both Elijah and Jesus disappeared from the foot of a mountain.Both Elijah and Jesus ascended into Heaven before witnesses.Both Elijah and Jesus troubled Israel.Both Elijah and Jesus were hunted down by the Jewish authorities.Both Elijah and Jesus hid in a cave/tomb.Both Elijah and Jesus pondered in the wilderness 40 days.Both Elijah and Jesus walked on the water.Both wrote letters to people on Earth after they had ascended.Both appointed a successor, Elisha by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ.Both were hunted by the Jewish authoritiesBoth gave a successor the power to raise the deadBoth gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other.Both asked that the this "cup" be taken from them.Both are said to have had miraculous births.Both multiplied the meal for many people they feed in the crowdBoth destroyed the pagan worshippers and priests, one Baal, the other, the Pantheon of Rome.Both were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.

silly nonsense...The Bible SAYS Elijah would come back.
He never died, went to heaven, was immortal according to the story in 1Kings.My interjects merely show how Jesus fits the bill inside the text of what is written.