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Author Topic:   Scriptural evidence that Jesus is Messiah:
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

Message 301 of 304 (704270)
08-07-2013 7:16 PM

No scriptural evidence that Jesus is the Messiah was presented.
Archangel presented a list of supposed prophecies then ran away without supporting his assertions.

kof2u showed up and just posted nonsense, making shit up and rewriting what is actually written.

Once again, looks like as usual the Biblical folk don't even read the Bible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Posts: 4782
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.5

Message 302 of 304 (704274)
08-07-2013 9:41 PM

I would argue that using OT prophesies as evidence of the messiahship of Jesus really isn't about that at all.

Trying to use the OT as evidence for the resurrection is simply a misguided effort to prove an inerrant Bible. Jesus certainly understood His messianic mission from the Hebrew Scriptures and saw Himself as the fulfilment of them. He explained what He was doing to His Jewish audience by using the scriptures but that is another issue.

There are only two issues in the Bible that are evidence of Jesus' messaihship and they are both in the NT. The first is Jesus' claim to messiahship and the second is the vindication of that claim by the resurrection of Jesus by the Father. If Jesus was resurrected He was the messiah. If Jesus was not resurrected He wasn't regardless of any prophesies.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8

Member (Idle past 340 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013

Message 303 of 304 (704283)
08-08-2013 12:11 AM

If Jesus was resurrected He was the messiah. If Jesus was not resurrected He wasn't regardless of any prophesies.


Why do you think that JC was ressurected?

Even in the New Testament there is NOT ONE SINGLE WITNESS of his resurrection. No man saw him get up from the grave and walk away.

Oh, but he appeared to his disciples. Well, in that case, can you explain to me why nobody recognized him? Look in Luke 24:13-35. This speaks about the men on the road to Emmaus. JC met them, but they didn't recognize him.

The same thing happens in John 20:14; "At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, ... "
She thought JC was the gardener....

John 21:4 "Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. He called out to them, ..."

And again they didn't recognize him.

Isn't it strange that they didn't recognize the person with whom they were so close for years?

But the NT gives the answer to that strange phenomena. Look in Mark 16:12-13 "Afterward Jesus appeared IN A DIFFERENT FORM to two of them while they were walking in the country."
So it was a person "in a different form" from the previous well known JC who appeared to them, that's why they didn't recognize him.

A person in different form from the old JC, who was not recognized by the people he interacted with for years, only days before, doesn't that sounds like an impostor who is pretending to be the resurrected JC?

That also explains why some of the disciples doubted when the "resurrected JC" appeared to them: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted." Matt 28:17.

Can you imagine that the authentic JC appears to you and you still doubt?
Apparently he was not so authentic.

If the disciples, who saw the "resurrected JC" with their own eyes, still doubted, why then do the Christians 2000 years later, who have nothing to go by but stories, don't doubt?

Edited by Eliyahu, : No reason given.

Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005

Message 304 of 304 (705704)
08-30-2013 6:58 PM

Jesus, after His resurrection, trained His disciples over a period of 40 days to realize that He was with them though they could no see Him.

Jesus trained His early disciples to live by His invisible presence. This was crucial in God's purpose - for men and women to live in oneness with Christ who, in addition to rising from the dead, became a life giving Spirit to indwell His believers.

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

Not only did Jesus train the disciples to realize that He was with them though they could not see Him. He also trained them that He was going to be within many of their Christian brothers and sisters as members of His mystical Body.

For this reason, outwardly, the personal appearance may vary. Inwardly the person was joined to Christ, associated with Christ, and indwelt with by Christ. Each member of the NT church had Christ living in her or him and ALL the disciples should treat one another accordingly.

Skeptics have to offer alternative explanations of why a sizable number of Jews suddenly made such changes in long held traditions, Ie. the Saturday main day worship to the "Lord's Day" - first day of the new week to celebrate the life of Jesus.

Skeptics also have to offer alternative explanations to scores of Jews discontinuing animal offerings in favor of believing that the man Jesus of Nazareth had offered ONE and FINAL sacrificial offering of Himself for all time.

Skeptics can also explain the mention of 500 eyewitnesses of the resurrected Jesus that the Apostle Paul argued could mostly be still consulted with to verify the apostolic teaching of the resurrected Christ - (First Cor. 15:5-11).

Mass hallucination is unlikely.
That Paul fabricated such a large and mostly available body of eyewitnesses is unlikely.

God is about dispensing the Spirit of Christ into people. Millions have claimed God and Christ became real to them upon opening their innermost heart and spirit to Jesus and the Gospel. In short a vast number of fellow human beings claim that Jesus is available which would be perfectly consistent with what He Himself was teaching.

Preparing His disciples for His death and resurrection He said this:

"But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. " (John 16:7)

It is expedient that Jesus ascend physically to the right hand of God somewhere at the peak of all being - in the third heaven. If He did not the Spirit of Reality - the Comforter - the Holy Spirit who is Christ in His pneumatic form, would not come to be IN the disciples.

So after the resurrection Jesus did a number of things to transition His disciples to understand that He was now going to be the Holy Spirit living within their spirit -as He had also promised -

"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We [Father and Son] will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

We Christians testify that we know Jesus rose from the dead, because this expediency has indeed taken place as He promised. Jesus Christ can come to us and make an abode with us. He can be Christ IN us as the life giving Holy Spirit. T

As the skeptic places all his priorities in physical proofs of Christ's resurrection Christ and God put the right amount of emphasis upon this. And the Triune God put emphasis ALSO on the expediency of the living and available Christ coming to make an abode within His believers. This God deems today as the main witness He wants to the world for the truth of Christ having been raised from the dead.

The skeptic only cares for grandstanding which proved inadequate to really change lives. God was seen on Mt. Sinai for 40 days and the people grew weary and unbelieving, making a golden calf and wanting to return to Egypt.

Grandstanding in a visible way has its limitations. God's priorities were in changed lives of those who grasped the reality of the living and available Son of God.

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