|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,766 Year: 4,023/9,624 Month: 894/974 Week: 221/286 Day: 28/109 Hour: 1/3 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Are Multiverses possible? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
hsweet Junior Member (Idle past 646 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
We are going around in circles. A fundamental concept is that there is the concrete and the descriptive. There is the real and it's fantasy variations. There is the language of relationships.
Love, for example, is not an absolute concrete thing but, instead is referential to the relationship, for example, between a man and a woman.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6410 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
hsweet writes:
No, there's a lot that isn't.
Isn't mathematics ultimately relational to the physical? Hilbert's Hotelthe first uncountable ordinal infinite dimensional vector spaces p-adic number system nowhere differentiable functions Stone—Čech compactifications We study lots of weird stuff.Christianity claims the moral high ground it its rhetoric. It has long since abandoned the moral high ground in its practices
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
hsweet Junior Member (Idle past 646 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
I have to admit ignorance here; my math education only took me through 4 years of high school math and a smattering of it in college. Interestingly enough, I never needed anything professionally that I didn't learn in grammar school. On the other hand, I did use intermediate algebra, logarithms and trigonometry in my hobby.
What can you do to make things meaningful to me?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nonsense.
I did not say love between a man or a woman, I said "love". "Love", the Platonic form. Beauty, the Platonic form. Honor, the Platonic form. In addition I mentioned other things that cannot exist, the absolutely straight line, the infinite sequence ...Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
hsweet Junior Member (Idle past 646 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Abstractions eventually become relative. Beauty is not descriptive of no thing.
A line is a concept but is relational to a plane which, in turn, is relational to a solid which exists in reality.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Learn to read.
I did not say they were no thing, I said they are things I can imagine that do not exist. Do you know about Platonic Forms? Do you understand that a perfectly straight line is not simply a line? Do you know what an infinite sequence is?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Dr Adaquate, We can not intellectually understand any possible physical reality outside of our universe due to the limitations of our intellects. Human intellect evolved so that we could navigate within the relative universe of space, time, matter and energy so anything else that might possibly exist is beyond our capability. When we try to think 'outside the universe', we only project what is inside the universe to that 'realm' -- that's all that we can do. My argument is that whatever it is that is non-universe can't be what is within the universe otherwise there would be no distinction between the two. Well ... When we talk about "other universes" in the context of the Inflation Hypothesis, we do mean just more spacetime and energy and matter, having a common origin with our own universe. What makes them "other universes" is causality: the geometry of spacetime is such that what's in the other universes can't affect what's in our universe, and vice versa. It's not that there's (necessarily) an essential qualitative distinction between this universe and the next, just that they're causally isolated from one another.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Portillo Member (Idle past 4186 days) Posts: 258 Joined: |
Yes they are possible. The problem is there isnt a shred of evidence that another universe exists.
And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Yes they are possible. The problem is there isnt a shred of evidence that another universe exists. There are, in fact, shreds of evidence. I've referred to the Inflationary Hypothesis. There is some evidence that this is correct. If it is correct, then other universes are a corollary of its correctness. --- I suppose another piece of evidence, though I'm not sure how much weight we should attach to this, is that it's extremely rare for there to be only one of anything. Can you think of a particular thing which is also the only instance of its type? For some reason I am more hesitant to reason inductively on the basis of this observation than I usually am, and I don't quite understand the reason for my hesitance --- I just have a vague feeling that it might not be satisfactory.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
hsweet Junior Member (Idle past 646 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
OK. hypothetical to the hilt, though as with no possible interaction, that leaves us out of the picture.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
OK. hypothetical to the hilt, though as with no possible interaction, that leaves us out of the picture. Well, they needn't remain hypothetical, as I pointed out to Portillo. If we can establish strong evidence for the mechanism by which our universe began, and if the mechanism for which we have evidence implies the existence of other universes, then we would in fact have evidence for their existence.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
hsweet Junior Member (Idle past 646 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Talk about healthy undertakings! Good Luck.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Talk about healthy undertakings! Good Luck. It's no use wishing me good luck, I'm not a physicist. Certainly it looks as though some version of the I.H. might well be true. Will we ever know enough to say that it definitely is true? I don't know. But the mere fact that we can entertain the idea does seem to undermine any attempt on your part to rule out other universes a priori.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
hsweet Junior Member (Idle past 646 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Perhaps far out might be more correct than rule out.
It's when we start hearing other universe descriptions presented as an alternative to the anthropic that we start seeing science getting edgy about religion. Eastern time here. Time to quit for the night.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6410 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
hsweet writes:
That probably can't be done, without you spending some time learning higher math.What can you do to make things meaningful to me? In any case, my point is made. I have no difficulty conceiving of things, and finding rich meaning in them, but things that you do not even find meaningfulChristianity claims the moral high ground it its rhetoric. It has long since abandoned the moral high ground in its practices
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024