Is morality absolute or relative?

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Does moral relativism mean that to be truly free, we must be free from our cultural-religious bias?

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No. Moral relativism means that there is no absolute standard by which to judge moral and ethical decisions.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

No, it seems to be the standard definition of moral relativism. From wikipedia: I have seen your definition of moral relativism before, but usually only by religious advocates of one type or another decry their percieved lack of morality in today's society.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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I just think that if morality exists...

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I believe that it is wrong to interfere with a mother's right to terminate her pregnancy. There, that's proof that morality exists.

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...then it must necessarily be absolute.

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Pat Robertson believes that it is wrong to allow a mother to terminate her pregnancy. There, that proves morality is relative.What is the issue?

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

I guess the problem, then, is that I cannot concieve of an abosolute standard of morality. Morality deals with right and wrong. Right and wrong are subjective opinions. So as long as two individuals can have different opinions as to what is right and what is wrong, then morality must be subjective.

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are you saying that it was ok for the Jews to stone people because it was their way of living?

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Evidently, there were many people at that time that felt it was ok. Perhaps there were some individuals who disagreed. Today, most of us feel that it is not ok. There are also a few who disagree with the majority.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

What does the Reverend's preferences count? You are talking about absolute standards, not a particular person's preferences.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

I see a thread closure for off-topic derailment coming soon. And we were so close to red-lining, too!

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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What is an example of absolute morality?

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More to the point, how can morality be absolute?

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

Without morality, life would destroy itself.Okay, first, is there any reason I should believe this?Second, I will remind you that we are not discussing the existence of morality (we agree that it exists); we are discussing the possible existence of absolute morality.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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I forgive you for not seeing this... have you heard of WAR?

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Yes, and also, at least so far, life has not destroyed itself.But since we both agree that morality exists, this is moot.-

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I contend that 'absolute truths' exist.

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What is "an absolute truth"? Can you give me an example so I know what you are talking about?-

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If this entir triggers your defense mechanisms....

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If I point out that there is no logic in your post, does that count as a defense mechanism?-

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Are we having fun?

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I'm always amused by examples of "word salad".-

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If morality exists, it is a perfect example of absolute truth.

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You have not really explained what an absolute truth is, that morality is an absolute truth, nor that being an absolute truth implies that there is an absolute standard for morality.-

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The fact is, there is no such thing as morality; unless, you assume a creator.

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This is not true. The existence of morality and the existence of a creator are logically independent. You can have a creator with no morals, you can have a creator with morals, you can have morals with no creator, and you can have neither morals nor creator. The existence of one does not imply the other.However, we do agree that morals exist. What we do not agree on, and which you have not yet demonstrated, is the existence of an absolute standard for morality.-

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This same principle applies if we claim to be God by implication.

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Since no one here is claiming to be God, this is moot.-

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Moral relativism is an oxymoron!

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An absolute standard for morality is a contradiction in terms. Making assertians like this is easy. But at least I have justified mine.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

Boy, it sure looks like an interesting five pages of post that were written after I logged off -- NOT.Let's try to get back to topic.Is there an absolute standard for morality?I will repeat what I said before: it does not exist because, like a four-sided triangle, the definitions themselves do not allow it.Morality is, basically, the determination of whether actions (and maybe attitudes) are right or wrong.Right and wrong are inherently subjective feelings.Therefore, there cannot be an absolute standard of morality.One can, in principle, impose a single standard on everyone, and this seems to be what some Christians (and people of other faiths) think God is trying to do. However, this single standard is chosen arbitrarily, and even choosing God's choices are but an arbitrary choice. There is nothing that makes God's choices any more "objective" than, say, my barber's.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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You see, I don't have to prove that morality is absolute... You cannot deny it without saying that it is yourself!

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Huh?Let me see if I got this; you simply believe that there must be an absolute standard for morality, but you are unable to present a cogent argument for this belief. It is simply something that you believe, for no other reason than you believe it, and it is going to be a waste of our time to continue to ask you to try to explain it (not that I don't have the time to waste, mind you).Just a warning -- past experience has shown that you get one, maybe two, free threads to trash to bits; after that, if you continue to refuse to present arguments based on facts or logic then you will start finding your posting privileges restricted. I recommend that you begin to at least stay on topic, avoid these inane comments on other people's attitudes, and try to present a clear, cogent argument as to why we should believe that there is an absolute standard for morality.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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You cannot deny the absolute nature of morality, without deny the reasoning behind your own declaration.

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Sure I can. The reason I deny it is that different people have different opinions of the morality of various actions. This is evidence that there is no absolute standard.Now, why should I believe that there is an absolute standard?

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)