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Author Topic:   Tentativity and The Bible
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 15 of 48 (674256)
09-27-2012 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by LimpSpider
09-27-2012 1:19 AM


LimpSpider writes:

Israel was a high-context culture. These “implied missing bits” are actually assumed to be common knowledge to the reader.


And the intended reader was Israel, not you. That's exactly why the Bible should not be taken literally. It should be taken in the context in which it was meant.

If you understand that, why are you a creationist?

(Welcome aboard. We have a shortage of creationists here - they tend to wear out fast. I hope you're more robust than the average one. )


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 1:19 AM LimpSpider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 7:16 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 23 of 48 (674391)
09-28-2012 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by LimpSpider
09-27-2012 7:16 PM


LimpSpider writes:

So, if we read it like the Israelites, we would understand the text in the same way as the Israelites.


The ones most likely to read it like Israelites are modern Jews, who can read the Hebrew. So why is it that fundamentalist CHristians often disagree with the Jewish view of the Old Testament?

LimpSpider writes:

Why creationists here worn out so fast? Because there are so many of you and so few of us.


Then bring reinforcements. If evolution is dying as creationists claim, you should have an endless supply of adherents to inundate us.

LimpSpider writes:

Each of you post a reply to something we say. We have to post a reply to all that you say. Otherwise, it’s aha. You don’t have an argument.


You don't have to respond to everybody. It's to your advantage to have several versions of an argument to choose from. Respond to the one(s) thatyou have the best answers for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 7:16 PM LimpSpider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by LimpSpider, posted 09-29-2012 7:07 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 25 of 48 (674488)
09-29-2012 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by LimpSpider
09-29-2012 7:07 AM


LimpSpider writes:

How exactly do fundamentalist Christians disagree? I seriously do not know


I assumed that you were a fundamentalist Christian, like most creationists. Aren't you?

The basic difference is that Jews read the Bible as literature while fundamentalists read it like a newspaper.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by LimpSpider, posted 09-29-2012 7:07 AM LimpSpider has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 32 of 48 (767441)
08-29-2015 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Straightshot
08-28-2015 3:05 PM


Straightshot writes:

The biblical account of creation is the only one to rely upon .... communicated by the Creator Himself


So, the OP says (and Paul says) that we should test all things. How do you test that the Bible was communicated by the Creator Himself? Remember that you can't use what you're testing as the standard for the test, so your test has to be outside the Bible.

How do you test whether there even IS a Creator?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Straightshot, posted 08-28-2015 3:05 PM Straightshot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 12:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 34 of 48 (767449)
08-29-2015 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Straightshot
08-29-2015 12:58 PM


Straightshot writes:

Study and learn the Lord's prophetic word and then test it against recorded history

You will find that the congruence 100% accurate


Actually, I won't. Ezekiel's prophecy against Tyre is an example that comes to mind:
quote:
Ezekiel 26:14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the Lord have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

It was rebuilt. Prophecy failed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 12:58 PM Straightshot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 4:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 41 of 48 (767540)
08-30-2015 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Straightshot
08-29-2015 4:10 PM


Straightshot writes:

I don't have to prove anything to you....


I never suggested that you do. You predicted what I would find and I told you what I actually did find. Your prediction, like the prophecy, was wrong.

Straightshot writes:

Also understand that when the Lord brings destruction to a city or nation, the destruction comes to the people of the day .... but this does not mean that future cities will not be built later on the same topography


So when Ezekiel said "thou shalt be built no more" what he really meant was "thou shalt be built no more until thou art rebuilt"? That's pretty thin.

I agree with you that the prophecy was not intended to apply to the distant future. What Ezekiel actually said was an exaggeration. It was rhetoric, not intended to be taken literally.

You can take the Bible literally or you can admit the prophecy failed. You can't have it both ways.

Straightshot writes:

Here is an example of a future and similar event that is coming....


You're shooting yourself in the foot. You admitted that the prophecy about Tyre didn't apply to the far future and now you're claiming that the prophecy in Revelation does. You can't have it both ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 4:10 PM Straightshot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 4:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 43 of 48 (767645)
08-31-2015 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Straightshot
08-30-2015 4:25 PM


Straightshot writes:

Two different prophecies


No, we're talking about one prophecy, the prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed forever. The rebuilding of Tyre was not foreseen, thus either the prophecy was not completely fulfilled or it was not intended to be taken literally in the first place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 4:25 PM Straightshot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 7:30 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19615
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 46 of 48 (767728)
09-01-2015 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straightshot
09-01-2015 7:30 AM


Straightshot writes:

Literally fulfilled


You have very low standards. You are not "testing all things" as Paul instructed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 7:30 AM Straightshot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 12:35 PM ringo has seen this message

  
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