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Author Topic:   Tentativity and The Bible
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16101
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 16 of 48 (674297)
09-27-2012 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by LimpSpider
09-27-2012 1:19 AM


(This is related, but not exactly on the topic, High-versus low-Context culture: A comparison of Chinese, Korean, and American cultures talking about current cultures of which I am describing)

Israel was a high-context culture. These “implied missing bits” are actually assumed to be common knowledge to the reader.

But ...

Since you are a Christian ... is it not the case that Jesus was radically against the culture of Israel? So much so that he stood against the conventional interpretation of the laws concerning sabbath-breaking and adultery? So much so that the Bible repeatedly portrays him as being against the traditional interpretation as defended by the Pharisees? So much so that when he claimed to be the Messiah then the religious experts of Israel decided that he should be put to death as a blasphemer? And not just the experts, but the ordinary people who cried out that Pilate should free Barabbas rather than Jesus.

If you believe the gospels, then the Jews did not understand their scriptures, and were so far away from understanding them that when their promised Messiah turned up they wanted him to be tortured to death.

So if you are a Christian then you have to admit that the most important idea ever was incomprehensible and indeed blasphemous to the Jews, the very people for whom the OT was written.

You write:

LimpSpider writes:

Israel was a high-context culture. These “implied missing bits” are actually assumed to be common knowledge to the reader.

And yet the readers of the OT, using their "common knowledge" cried: "Crucify him! Crucify him!" The "implied missing bits" were not such "common knowledge" as to prevent them from sadistically murdering God incarnate. But you think that their consensus --- their "common knowledge" --- is sufficient for us to agree on less important stuff than whether it is OK to torture God to death?

To be a Christian, you have to believe that the most important fact in the world ever was concealed and hidden in the OT from the Jews: from their experts, from their religious enthusiasts, and from the common people. So let's hear no more about this "high context culture".

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 1:19 AM LimpSpider has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 7:48 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16101
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 19 of 48 (674325)
09-27-2012 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by LimpSpider
09-27-2012 7:48 PM


So ... what are you saying? They knew, from their "high context" reading of the scriptures that he was their promised Messiah, but out of "jealousy" they decided to go ahead and crucify him anyway?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 7:48 PM LimpSpider has responded

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 Message 20 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 8:54 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16101
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 21 of 48 (674333)
09-27-2012 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by LimpSpider
09-27-2012 8:54 PM


But this doesn't really answer the point. They had all this "high-context" knowledge of the OT. Yay for them. But they didn't recognize their own Messiah promised in the OT when he turned up. How is that? You write:

Israel was a high-context culture. These “implied missing bits” are actually assumed to be common knowledge to the reader.

And yet apparently they missed the most important fact in the whole universe. "Common knowledge"? Apparently not.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16101
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 36 of 48 (767480)
08-29-2015 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Straightshot
08-29-2015 4:10 PM


Both Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the great attacked Tyre [the original coastal island city] .... and it is this Tyre that is no more

http://www.padfield.com/1994/tyre.html

Also understand that when the Lord brings destruction to a city or nation, the destruction comes to the people of the day .... but this does not mean that future cities will not be built later on the same topography

"I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD." --- Ezekiel 26:14.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 8:22 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16101
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 40 of 48 (767532)
08-30-2015 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Straightshot
08-30-2015 8:22 AM


This does not mean that He erred just because another later human effort to build again in the same location takes place

If someone says that a city will never be rebuilt, and then the city is rebuilt, then that is in fact an error.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16101
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 45 of 48 (767727)
09-01-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straightshot
09-01-2015 7:30 AM


Literally fulfilled

Nothing you can do

Good, good. So, just to be clear about this. The prophecy that Tyre would never be rebuilt has been literally fulfilled.

And also, this is a photograph of modern-day Tyre, the fourth largest city in Lebanon.

Tell me, what do you think the word "literally" means? And, indeed, "fulfilled"?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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