The Ghost of Hitler

I think nazi-ism is simply an extended version of already existing ideologies and doctrines taken to the extreme. One particular requirement that exists in both religion and nazi-ism is the requirement for the suspension of human reason in matter of morals.I am reminded of my conversation with Phat in chat a few days ago. I pointed out that genocide, no matter what time period and by whom is, never justified by anything that remotely resemble true human reason. The only way one could conceivably justify and rationalize the extermination campaign of the Canaanites by the Israelites mentioned in the bible is if one suspends all human reason and blindly follow god's order. Phat immediately, without any delay, responded "but they were given 40 years to repent".Phat, as you all know, is a fairly openminded and among some of the more liberals within the religious ranks we have here. His response, however, still reflects the need to justify and rationalization of an obvious genocidal campaign.After all, one could say that the Jews in Nazi Germany were given almost a decade to leave Europe before all hell came about. Same line of reasoning. Same rationale that justifies horrific genocidal acts both on the national level (as a people) and on the individual level.Not surprisingly, Phat after making that statement said "wait a minute" and then went ahead and tried to change his statement. Again, I can't help but see the striking resemblance between this single example and the way the nazis tried to deny having part in the holocaust.What does this tell me? A part of themselves (both phat on that comment and nazis on the holocaust) tell them that it was wrong for them to try to justtify and rationalize obviously horrific acts but at the spur of the moment they tried to rationalize them anyway.The holocaust did not happen because of atheism or human reason. The holocaust happenned because of the same thought process that the religions of the world have been using for eons to control their millions and millions of members. Suspend your sense of what is right and wrong. Suspend your disbelief in the leader (or god). It is this very thought process of having faith in the national leader or some magical entity that brought about the sufferings of millions.It's been some days since Phat made that statement, yet I must admit to still think about it a lot because it scares me what would happen if Phat (and everyone else like him) one day decides to use this amazing ability to justify genocide against myself and my loved ones. The people of Jerico, young and old, were, after all, given 40 years to repent. I wonder how long I have to repent before...

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

While I agree that religion is only a tool, as I explained above it is a tool that prevents the human reason and logic necessary to stop the killing.Are you trying to tell me that Phat, riverrat, Faith, iano, Buz, N_J, and the others like them would still be trying to justify the genocidal campaign (what happenned to Jerico, for example) mentioned in the bible if they had never been christianized but instead were taught to empathize and real human morals like kindness, honesty, etc.?

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

You didn't really answer my question.

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

I'm going to see if I can bring some human reason to the table. Do you agree that many, if not most, christians often try to rationalize the genocidal acts done by the Israelites to the Canaanites?The reason I keep pointing this out is because in order for evil to persist for so long in Nazi Germany, people had to be accepting it and even try to rationalize it. How did they do this? Obviously, they looked to the teachings of the Nazis without questioning them. It is this same thought process that inspire riverrat, N_J, Buzsaw, Phat, and perhaps even yourself to try to rationalize the horrific acts that were done to the people of Jerico as was told in the Old Testament.We are trying to point out to you that the thought process of having unquestionable faith and rationalization of horrific acts that religion requires people to have was the same thought process that killed 6 million Jews and other so-called undesirables.

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

For those of you who have doubted that I was a prophet of god, here is a prophecy that will come true.There will indeed be certain christians who will try to rationalize every one of those quotes by Martin Luther.

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

My point exactly. It is exactly this mentality that has allowed atrocities to persist throughout the ages.If there's no christian willing to say something against this, I must assume that they are in agreement with what you just said. Hence, my point exactly. In order to be a christian, you must sometimes be willing to commit horrific acts against humanity.Do you not see the correlation between "whatever the furher says or does is righteous" and "whatever god says or does is righteous"?

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Of course! That's the point. It doesn't matter whether one is religious or not when it comes to mass murder and genocide. The whole point is the mentality, the thought process that lead up to it and allow it to persist.You said so yourself. God ordered the murder of everyone (including the little toddlers) in Jerico and it was righteous. How is that different from Hitler ordering the murder of millions of Jews or Stalin ordering the murder of millions of his own people? The only conceivable way these murders were allowed to be carried out is if the people that carried out the murders had the same mentality that you are having right now: that your god, your leader, or whatever ordered the murder of whole peoples and it your god/leader/whatever is always righteous. Huh? Are you saying that it is just and righteous to kill entire groups of people (including the little children) just because it was in the bible? Again, how is this different than how the nazis tried to justify their murderous campaigns against the Jews?Now, remember that we are not talking about atheism versus theism. We are talking about the mentality and the thought process required for these genocidal acts to happen and persist. Right now, it really isn't helping your case when you said god was righteous to order the Israelites to kill everyone (including the children) inside Jerico and other cities of Canaan.

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Care to address the actual Luther quotes?

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Not all Jews who identify themselves as Jews do so because of their religious beliefs. I know half a dozen atheist Jews who identify themselves as Jews because of their culture and inheritance. Lewis Black, I think, is one of the more famous examples.

---

Disclaimer:

​

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!