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Author Topic:   The Ghost of Hitler
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 65 (426034)
10-04-2007 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 8:53 PM


We only need to point out that the writer of the above troll-like comment is an Atheist-evolutionist attempting to slander his enemy.

What's the slander? Those are literally Martin Luther's own words.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 8:53 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1265 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 17 of 65 (426036)
10-04-2007 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 8:53 PM


We only need to point out that the writer of the above troll-like comment is an Atheist-evolutionist attempting to slander his enemy.

Ad-hominem. Who iceage is is irrelevant to his point. That Martin Luther's religious teachings heavily influenced the rhetoric Hitler used in executing the Holocaust and forming the Nazi party is a well-known fact.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 8:53 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 18 of 65 (426038)
10-04-2007 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 9:02 PM


Ad-hominem. Who iceage is is irrelevant to his point. That Martin Luther's religious teachings heavily influenced the rhetoric Hitler used in executing the Holocaust and forming the Nazi party is a well-known fact.

Show me.

Ray


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 19 of 65 (426040)
10-04-2007 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 6:17 PM


I'm going to see if I can bring some human reason to the table.

Cold writes:

Here we have an Atheist (Bluegenes) blaming the Holocaust on religion, instead of Hitler.


Do you agree that many, if not most, christians often try to rationalize the genocidal acts done by the Israelites to the Canaanites?

The reason I keep pointing this out is because in order for evil to persist for so long in Nazi Germany, people had to be accepting it and even try to rationalize it. How did they do this? Obviously, they looked to the teachings of the Nazis without questioning them. It is this same thought process that inspire riverrat, N_J, Buzsaw, Phat, and perhaps even yourself to try to rationalize the horrific acts that were done to the people of Jerico as was told in the Old Testament.

We are trying to point out to you that the thought process of having unquestionable faith and rationalization of horrific acts that religion requires people to have was the same thought process that killed 6 million Jews and other so-called undesirables.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1265 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 20 of 65 (426046)
10-04-2007 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 9:13 PM


Show me.

How about Martin Luther's book: "On the Jews and Their Lies"

Wiki

quote:
"I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them"

"There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses — namely, that God has struck [the Jews] with 'madness and blindness and confusion of mind.' So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them. Rather we allow them to live freely in our midst despite all their murdering, cursing, blaspheming, lying, and defaming; we protect and shield their synagogues, houses, life, and property. In this way we make them lazy and secure and encourage them to fleece us boldly of our money and goods, as well as to mock and deride us, with a view to finally overcoming us, killing us all for such a great sin, and robbing us of all our property (as they daily pray and hope). Now tell me whether they do not have every reason to be the enemies of us accursed Goyim, to curse us and to strive for our final, complete, and eternal ruin!"

And this part sounds familiar:

"First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. ..."

"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. ..."

"Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. ..."

"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. ..."

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. ..."

"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them. ... Such money should now be used in ... the following [way]... Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed [a certain amount]..."

"Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow... For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants."

"If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs."


Those are direct quotes from Martin Luther's own book. Martin Luther's ideas were nearly identical to Hitler's.

Edited by Rahvin, : Added Wiki link


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3992 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 21 of 65 (426049)
10-04-2007 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 8:53 PM


Martin Luther a Religious Luminary
Another pointless useless comment.

Address the material if you please or by your own recommendations you should be suspended.

Martin Luther concerning the Jews writes:


...First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them....

... [a] base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth...

...I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb....

...we must drive them out like mad dogs...

Martin Luther a theistic luminary.

Luther's foaming-at-the-mouth condemnations formed the foundation for what was to come to fruition in the 20th century. By their fruit you will know them, as it is written.

Predictable superstitionist cultish meme addled thought processing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 8:53 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 22 of 65 (426050)
10-04-2007 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 9:26 PM


For those of you who have doubted that I was a prophet of god, here is a prophecy that will come true.

There will indeed be certain christians who will try to rationalize every one of those quotes by Martin Luther.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Rahvin, posted 10-04-2007 9:26 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 23 of 65 (426052)
10-04-2007 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Taz
10-04-2007 9:15 PM


Look what Darwin hath wrought!
Do you agree that many, if not most, christians often try to rationalize the genocidal acts done by the Israelites to the Canaanites?

We have no idea what you are talking about. God ordered death upon the Canaanites for scorning Him and remaining in idolatry.

The point is: whatever God says or does is righteous.

The reason I keep pointing this out is because in order for evil to persist for so long in Nazi Germany, people had to be accepting it and even try to rationalize it. How did they do this?

Darwinism converted science to evolutionism by 1874. Evolution says Genesis is false. In turn, the Wellhausen school in Germany became emboldened and created the Documentary Hypothesis that predictably asserted, without any external evidence, that early Mosaic authorship was false, the Jews conspired to fool the world. Since they were Darwinists and Haeckelysts could we expect them to conclude anything else about the Old Testament? Several decades later their German brothers concluded the same: the Jews were in conspiracy to rule the world, and armed with Darwin's theory they selected their enemies for extinction.

Does that answer your question?

Ray


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1265 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 24 of 65 (426057)
10-04-2007 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 9:42 PM


Re: Look what Darwin hath wrought!
Darwinism converted science to evolutionism by 1874. Evolution says Genesis is false. In turn, the Wellhausen school in Germany became emboldened and created the Documentary Hypothesis that predictably asserted, without any external evidence, that early Mosaic authorship was false, the Jews conspired to fool the world. Since they were Darwinists and Haeckelysts could we expect them to conclude anything else about the Old Testament? Several decades later their German brothers concluded the same: the Jews were in conspiracy to rule the world, and armed with Darwin's theory they selected their enemies for extinction.

Does that answer your question?

I think that's pretty damned irrelevant, since the vast, vast majority of Evolutionists and Atheists agree with everyone else in that social Darwinism is an horrifically immoral position. While Hitler did subscribe to a form of "survival of the fittest," his determination of who was most fit consisted of a religious/racial test, based on the teachings of Martin Luther. And the scientific Theory of Evolution has absolutely nothing to say regarding philosophy - social Darwininsm is entirely separate.

The point is: whatever God says or does is righteous.

And so, if God tells you to murder a baby, that would be a righteous act? If Hitler had actually been instructed by God to kill the Jews, as he hinted at time and again in his speaches, the holocaust would have been righteous and justified?

That's sickening, CFO.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 25 of 65 (426062)
10-04-2007 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 9:26 PM


Re: Martin Luther writings - Link please
I'm presuming that you didn't pull your info out of a print version.

Supplying a link to the source site is a good and proper thing. Please add such to your message 20.

Please, no reply to the off-topic/moderation message.

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

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It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source


This message is a reply to:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 26 of 65 (426063)
10-04-2007 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 9:26 PM


How about Martin Luther's book: "On the Jews and Their Lies"

We know about these writings by Luther, what is your point?

Those are direct quotes from Martin Luther's own book. Martin Luther's ideas were nearly identical to Hitler's.

Luther was the theologian that God chose to ignite the Reformation. His Biblical exegesis gave birth to Protestantism. He murdered nobody. Hitler was an Atheist who claimed to be Christian and took advantage of ancient theological hatreds bewteen Jews and Christians over the death of Christ, just like you are attempting to do. Luther was not a white supremacist, the issues back then were theological. The man who wrote the greatest hymn of the Church (Newton, Amazing Grace) was a slave trader. Both Luther and Newton's positive accomplishments have affected this world for untold good. Any inability to acknowledge these crucial facts and differences can be explained by pointing out your Atheist worldview and intent to slander your enemy (= Protestant Christianity).

Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical Creationist-Designist.


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Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2005 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 27 of 65 (426064)
10-04-2007 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Adminnemooseus
10-04-2007 10:18 PM


Re: Martin Luther writings - Link please

however, i'd suggest a reading of it, since a lot of sources suggest that his issue is doctrinal. as such, it's $5.


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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1265 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 28 of 65 (426069)
10-04-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 10:39 PM


We know about these writings by Luther, what is your point?

Are you dense? The antisemitic writings of Luthor are nearly identical to the rhetoric used by Hitler.

Luther was the theologian that God chose to ignite the Reformation. His Biblical exegesis gave birth to Protestantism. He murdered nobody.

Not relevant to this topic.

Hitler was an Atheist who claimed to be Christian and took advantage of ancient theological hatreds bewteen Jews and Christians over the death of Christ, just like you are attempting to do.

Prove that Hitler was not Christian. We have posted ample evidence showing he was - can you refute it with anything other than your own say-so, or appeals to motive and ad-hominems?

And I resent the idea that I'm "taking advantage of ancient theological hatreds." I'm providing evidence showing Hitler was a Christian, and used the teachings of Martin Luthor in his mission of hate.

Luther was not a white supremacist, the issues back then were theological.

I never said he was. The only reason race is at all relevant is because being Jewish identifies both a religion and a race.

The man who wrote the greatest hymn of the Church (Newton, Amazing Grace) was a slave trader. Both Luther and Newton's positive accomplishments have affected this world for untold good.

I would disagree, but this is off topic.

Any inability to acknowledge these crucial facts and differences can be explained by pointing out your Atheist worldview and intent to slander your enemy (= Protestant Christianity).

Im not slandering anyone. It's not slander if it's true, Ray. And all Ive posted is directly from the writings of Luthor himself. My Atheist worldview is irrelevant. I see no evidence for a deity - this has nothing to do with whether Hitler was a Christian. Dismissing my arguments becasue I am an Atheist is both an ad-hominem and an appeal to motive fallacy.

Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical Creationist-Designist.

That's a long-winded label there, Ray.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 10:39 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 29 of 65 (426071)
10-04-2007 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 9:42 PM


Re: Look what Darwin hath wrought!
Cold writes:

The point is: whatever God says or does is righteous.


My point exactly. It is exactly this mentality that has allowed atrocities to persist throughout the ages.

If there's no christian willing to say something against this, I must assume that they are in agreement with what you just said. Hence, my point exactly. In order to be a christian, you must sometimes be willing to commit horrific acts against humanity.

Do you not see the correlation between "whatever the furher says or does is righteous" and "whatever god says or does is righteous"?


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 9:42 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-05-2007 5:14 PM Taz has responded

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1125 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 30 of 65 (426206)
10-05-2007 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 11:02 PM


Are you dense? The antisemitic writings of Luthor are nearly identical to the rhetoric used by Hitler.

An epitome example of troll-like rhetoric.

Luther was enraged due to theological differences; apparently some Jews had called Mary "a whore" and Jesus "a bastard."

Jump ahead several centuries into modern times, and Hitler, an educated white supremacist, empowered by Darwin's theory and its racial superiority implications, which quickly emerged as the doctrine of eugenics, founded by his cousin, seeking power, justifies some of his wickedness by quote mining Luther. And you are doing the same: connecting Luther to have somehow been responsible for things that Darwin and evolution caused.

Not relevant to this topic.

Facts that expose the typical hate and smear agenda of evolutionists are always relevant.

Prove that Hitler was not Christian. We have posted ample evidence showing he was...SNIP

You have not posted any evidence supporting the claim of Christianity in behalf of Hitler. Since he murdered millions of persons, including many Catholics and Protestants, he was an Atheist.

Your entire case rests upon believing Hitler while ignoring the genocide he caused.

And I resent the idea that I'm "taking advantage of ancient theological hatreds." I'm providing evidence showing Hitler was a Christian, and used the teachings of Martin Luthor in his mission of hate.

I agree that he used Luther, this is not in dispute. What is in dispute is your refusal to see that it was slander and hijack by an Atheist in the process of murdering millions of persons. Since you refuse to acknowledge the context of Luther's profanity (theological) and not racial, but are engaged in a connection based solely on rhetoric, you are an anrgy hate filled Atheist attacking Protestant Christianity, what else is new?

Im not slandering anyone. It's not slander if it's true, Ray.

Blaming Hitler on Luther is slander of Luther and all Protestants. The degree of slander employed (which in this case is extreme) is equal to the degree that you hate Protestant Christianity. Since you are an Atheist-evolutionist we have an obvious explanation for your slander.

Ray


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