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Author Topic:   Morality Decreasing With Time?
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5934 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 182 of 305 (371925)
12-24-2006 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Rob
12-24-2006 1:49 AM


Re: On Absolutes
scottness
An absolute is that which is unchanging. By definition, God is the only absolute.
That is a conjecture not a definition. You assert that God is unchanging but you can in no way demonstrate that a God exists much less that he is absolute

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 1:49 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:41 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5934 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 197 of 305 (371984)
12-24-2006 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Rob
12-24-2006 10:41 AM


Re: On Absolutes
scottness
I can demonstrate that He exists by laying down my life for Him.
That only demonstrates your willingness to do lay down your life not his existence. Cult members do it all the time.
You just think it's foolish in terms of human understanding. Well I agree! But I also think it is foolish to make absolute statements while denying that absolute exist.
There you go telling me what I think. I am not the one making the claims concerning God and absolutes, you are. The onus is on you to present the argument to convince me and you have yet to do so because your logic does not yet stand up to questioning.
Absolutes do exist! His name is the first and the last. The alpha and omega. Emanuel (God with us). Jesus!
You do not make something valid by declaration alone sir. Flavouring your speech with biblical reference and posturing is as equally meaningless. Defend your assertion with valid reasoning and not drivel pertinent only to your own narrow view of the world,otherwise you cannot hope to convince other of its validity.
I only profess it because I've met Him. He came to me when I cryed out to Him. That is how I know... not because I foolishly believe something I've never seen.
You are not offering me any kind of conviction here because it appears to me that you made the decisions when emotionally unsettled {I cryed out to him} which is the worst possible time to be able to rationally determine the validity of an experience. You know only what it appears { and would therefore lean your bias to expectation heavily towards achieving} you desperately wanted and not necessarily what was actually occurring.
Yet again this is not a convincing arguement in your favour. Can you offer something independent of your emotional instability sir?
That's why Frued had to dismiss it as delusion. Because you cannot argue with someone elses experience.
I have no idea of Freuds position on this and it is also irrelevant.
Of course you cannot argue someone else's experience of an event but neither can that person use it as a premise to an arguement since we who must listen cannot judge for ourselves its validity nor logic.
Again you are left with your own subjective world and cannot bring to bear anything of value.

Dear Mrs Chown, Ignore your son's attempts to teach you physics. Physics isn't the most important thing. Love is.
Best wishes, Richard Feynman.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 10:41 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 11:24 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5934 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 202 of 305 (371992)
12-24-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Rob
12-24-2006 11:24 AM


Re: On Absolutes
scotness
Only the Holy Spirit can persuade. God does not persuade by argument alone Sidelined. He persuades by sprinkling the conscious which combines reason with feeling. He works upon your heart and speaks to the root of your being.
So you say.What makes you think I am unfeeling? By what measure do you determine the extent of a man's heart sir? You claim that god works on it yet here I am unworked by this God and yet having no problems with it nor having a great deal of angst concerning it. I can only assume by your descriptions that the likelihood is that you are deluded in your assesment of your experience. I could be wrong but have no way of determining this.
But that is weakness to you. You think only with your mind. But that would be like loving your mother only out of nessecity. Or like marrying for money without regard for an intimate emotional relationship.
Oh contraire sir. I dearly loved my mom right up till she passed away. She was a gentle loving woman who gave me great gifts of compassion and tolerance.I do indeed think with my mind. How is that a disadvantage? If my mind can clearly see that an emotional condition is clouding its judgement in matters such as you bring to the floor how is that to my detriment/ If God indeed exists then how can mere questioning of the validity of an experience be capable of destroying that validity. I would expect a event that God participated in to be strengthened by the questioning of it not weakened or abolished.
I cannot convince anyone. And neither can God if they are determined not to be convinced!
Did you actually think before you wrote that? Convincing someone requires that they be cognizant of deception {both in themselves and others} as well as being able to question their assumptions in full and complete freedom in order that the experience should be considered valid.
It is not a matter of shunning the existence of a God it is the demanding of evidence for such an existence.Why should God hide away?
Why should evidence of a entity such as God amount to nothing at all?
Why should reasoning be absent in the determination of God if that very God is responsible for our ability to question in the first place? This makes no sense at all IMHO.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 11:24 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 2:42 PM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5934 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 257 of 305 (372193)
12-25-2006 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Rob
12-24-2006 2:42 PM


Re: On Absolutes
scotness
'Don't give me that ooey gooey nonsense about loving your mother. I want proof that you love your mother. Bring forth the witnesses and show me the money! And don't bother with that, because they are not credible witnesses. I don't believe you love your mother. And nothing you can say can prove to me that you do!
You evade again the issue altogether scotness. I am not after proof as you use in this strawman example of yours. I only require evidence which I can examine for myself. Since mothers tend to be a common experience for people and feelings that we call love are as well then these are the things I would set as examples of evidence. Proofs are for mathematics.
Also in your example you are a priori asserting the conclusion that my mother does not exist and have set your beliefs to filter out the possibility despite the evidence to the contrary.
I, on the other hand, am quite willing to examine the evidence you would give as support for your assertion of a God. The difficulty for you lies not in my unwillingness to deal with the evidence but on the poor quality of the evidence you bring to the discussion.
Your just making assertions that are not in any way verifiable. And don't give me any emotional examples that you ASSUME or PROJECT on to me, and expect me to relate. That is just avoiding the subject and trying manipulate me into admitting that I understand something I do not! I want a logical argument only... that proves to me you love your mother. Don't let your emotion get in the way!
You again avoid dealing with the issues by setting up a situation totally out of line with my requirements for your assertions. Please lose the rigid attitude that is clouding your ability to debate honestly and with respect sir. Failing this please excuse yourself from the discussion.
Logical arguments are not incapable of giving evidence for the quality of emotion we deem love sir. Again you are playing the whiny oppressed christian card and expecting that this is somehow a debate tactic rather than a childish ploy to hand wave away the difficulty that You must deal with in your assertions. Grow up and participate instead of throwing mild temper tantrums in the vain hope that people will somehow think you have a valid issue.

Dear Mrs Chown, Ignore your son's attempts to teach you physics. Physics isn't the most important thing. Love is.
Best wishes, Richard Feynman.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 2:42 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 3:46 PM sidelined has not replied

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