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Author
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Topic: Morality Decreasing With Time?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 8 of 305 (370368)
12-17-2006 10:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Chiroptera
12-17-2006 9:45 AM
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Chiroptera writes: I find it ironic that the greatest defenders of "traditional morality" are also the greatest advocates of an economic system that will and has destroyed "traditional morality". And they bewail the "end of civilization" when it is really the triumph of civilization over agrarianism (which is in turn the pinnacle of hunter/gatherism - which is what "animals" do).
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by Chiroptera, posted 12-17-2006 9:45 AM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 13 of 305 (370563)
12-18-2006 12:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 12 by Taz
12-17-2006 9:26 PM
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gasby writes: Did you accidently hit the submit reply button before you got to finish your response? Worse than that: he forgot to pass the collection plate.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by Taz, posted 12-17-2006 9:26 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
anastasia writes: Simply because it exists in all of them. Ears exist in all societies, too. Does that make ears an absolute? (You seem to be talking about "universal" or even "common" rather than "absolute".)
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 4:18 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
anastasia writes: Do ears have morals? Does something have to be about "morals" to be an absolute?
Isn't finding one universal or common recognition of value the same as finding an absolute moral standard? No. Murder is virtually universal in all societies. So which is the "absolute moral standard": yes-murder or no-murder?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 4:48 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: If you have evidence now is the time to bring it forward.
anastasia writes: Seriously now, this is a dead horse. My speciality. 
I have not found anything to trump love of neighbor.... The problem is that "neighbour" is defined relatively. As jar pointed out, it's moral to kill one neighbour and it's moral to mow another neighbour's lawn for him. How can "love thy neighbour" be absolute unless "neighbour" is also absolute?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 116 by anastasia, posted 12-20-2006 5:50 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 179 of 305 (371883)
12-23-2006 7:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 177 by Buzsaw
12-23-2006 6:57 PM
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Re: Communication and Morality
Don't you think that examples of good moral behaviour have an effect? Do you think your children do as you say or as they see you do? Don't you think they learn good habits from you as well as bad? So, when one society abolishes slavery, don't you think that has a good effect on other societies? When one society abandons aggressive war, don't you think that has a good effect on other societies? When one society ends discrimination based on colour, creed, sexual orientation, don't you think that has a good effect on other societies? It seems to me that the ones having a bad effect are those who cling blindly to the idea that we're bad and we can only get worse.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 177 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2006 6:57 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 188 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2006 9:40 AM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: On Absolutes
prophex writes: Absolutes are perfect unchanging models for which all things are accounted for. There is a perfect cat, a perfect definition for justice, etc... Those are ideals, not absolutes.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 185 by joshua221, posted 12-24-2006 3:17 AM | | joshua221 has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 209 of 305 (372011)
12-24-2006 1:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 208 by Rob
12-24-2006 1:00 PM
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Re: On Absolutes
scottness writes: It's easier to sit and laugh with the others who speak your language and laugh at the guy speaking in tounges foreign to you. When communicating on a public forum, speak the lingua franca. Don't speak in foreign tongues.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 1:00 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 210 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 1:35 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 211 of 305 (372016)
12-24-2006 1:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 210 by Rob
12-24-2006 1:35 PM
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Re: On Absolutes
scottness writes: I agree that this is the difficulty, but thought my point was to reveal that any illusion of neutrality is now exposed. The trouble is that you're not "revealing" anything unless you make sense. So, can you show - in a sensible fashion - that morality is decreasing with time?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 1:35 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 212 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 2:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 214 of 305 (372025)
12-24-2006 2:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 212 by Rob
12-24-2006 2:08 PM
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Re: On Absolutes
scottness writes: Morality is not so much action as it is the intent and internal nature of the heart. What do you think? Here's what Jesus thought:
quote:
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
The righteousness is in the doing.
... since the golden rule is supposed to (and I agree) sum up the law, then I believe I have shown evidence for my original assertion. The Golden Rule says, " Do unto others....", not "Intend unto others...." The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to heaven is paved with good deeds. What you have not shown is any evidence that the good deeds are becoming less frequent. What has been shown is that a lot of the bad deeds - e.g. slavery, sexism - are diminishing. Yes, there is disrespect for those who talk and only talk. As Jesus put it:
quote:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Edited by Ringo, : Expanded quotation.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 212 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 2:08 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 221 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 4:35 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 240 of 305 (372117)
12-25-2006 12:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 221 by Rob
12-24-2006 4:35 PM
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Re: On Absolutes
Nothing in your post addresses the issue. I quoted Jesus saying that what we do determines whether we go to heaven or hell. What we are doing, as a human race, is getting better, not worse. Address that issue and keep the sermons to yourself.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 221 by Rob, posted 12-24-2006 4:35 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 241 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:01 AM | | ringo has replied | | | Message 242 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:04 AM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 243 of 305 (372124)
12-25-2006 1:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 241 by Rob
12-25-2006 1:01 AM
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Re: On Absolutes
scottness writes: God bless you for saving me! You're mistaken yet again. I have no power to save you since you're so hell-bent on being hell-bent. The best I can do is put in a good word for you at the Pearly Gates. (Unfortunately, I can't put in a good word for you with the admins - it seems pretty likely that your latest incarnation is not long for the world of EvC.)
I now see the light! Obviously not.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 241 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:01 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 244 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:33 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 246 of 305 (372131)
12-25-2006 1:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 244 by Rob
12-25-2006 1:33 AM
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Re: On the decline of morality
scottness writes: The ad online which popped up for the Sheraton Hotels had two men playing and cuddling on the hotel bed in pj's...right on my screen. That seems to indicate an improvement in morality - a recognition of same-sex couples.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 244 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:33 AM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 247 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:42 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 248 of 305 (372136)
12-25-2006 1:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 247 by Rob
12-25-2006 1:42 AM
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Re: On the decline of morality
scottness writes: That seems to indicate an improvement in morality - a recognition of same-sex couples. My point...EXACTLY! So you agree that morality is increasing. Good. 
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 247 by Rob, posted 12-25-2006 1:42 AM | | Rob has not replied |
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