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Author Topic:   The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 49 of 314 (649735)
01-25-2012 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by onifre
01-25-2012 11:12 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
This is some high-caliber trolling! Love it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 11:12 AM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 57 of 314 (649744)
01-25-2012 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by onifre
01-25-2012 11:54 AM


It's not the calories or the activity
Healthcare is a privilage, as well it should be, awarded to those who take really good care of themselves through low carb, ZERO fatty foods, and an active lifestyle (I suggest 3-4 miles of jogging with at least 1 hour weight lifting).
4 miles of jogging burns approximately 250 calories, about the same amount of energy in a pack of Tic-Tacs. The human body is incredibly efficient; you can't meaningfully exercise your way to thinness. The obese, especially, develop primarily "slow-twitch" muscle that exerts force incredibly efficiently. But even if you were a professional athlete who could spend 8-10 hours a day, every day, working out - ten or twenty times the physical activity of the average American - you'll find that, at most, you'll only double or triple your caloric expenditures. You'll abundantly improve your health, just as long as you don't kill yourself.
And if you can't eat carbs, and you can't eat fats, and you can't eat proteins (because they cause cancer) what's left, exactly? You have to eat something, and your body will simply react to a calorie-restricted diet by extracting more calories from it. The obese overwhelmingly tend to eat less than their healthy peers.
Mass-balance nutrition, like Oni is talking about, has to be put to bed. Your body has a set-point weight. Gaining weight and keeping it moves your set-point up. Lose weight to below that set-point, and your body will simply hoard calories to get you back up. Calorie intake has to be understood as an active and adaptive process that responds to your body's perception of its caloric needs, not just a passive process where the only input is your pie-hole. I'm sure that Oni, and others, can point to instances where a little discipline and exercise produced dramatic weight loss, but these will overwhelmingly be the loss of pounds that were gained only in the past few years. When we're talking about people who became obese as children even as they ate less than their thinner peers, no realistic amount of exercise and calorie restriction is going to have much of an effect on their weight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 11:54 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by dronestar, posted 01-25-2012 12:41 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:02 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 78 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 1:34 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 75 of 314 (649769)
01-25-2012 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:02 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
First, it's an overall lifestyle of exercising. My suggestion for the jogging and weight lifting is just to get you STARTED.
There's only so many hours, so you're not just talking about a "lifestyle of exercise", you're asking people to abandon other leisure activities in favor of exercise. Recreational reading? Only on audiobook. That boat you're building in the garage? Not enough cardio in woodworking. Bridge club? Fuck those old bints, you've got to go do a 5k. Sell your golf clubs, if that was really a sport you wouldn't do it in pants. And, of course, this is all enforced by the healthcare gun to your head, even if your disease is not actually related to your weight or fitness. (Lance Armstrong's cancer was, no doubt, a figment of his imagination. Magic Johnson got AIDS by not playing basketball enough.)
You'll be much healthier than the women who eat McDonalds and walk around all fat.
They're walking, at least; I'm sitting here on a couch watching Downton Abbey, for which I'm sure you'll call me a fag.
Name one athlete that has ever died? I didn't think so.
Ok, I admit - I lol'd. Aw, I can't stay mad at you, Oni. Go on, call me a fag - you've earned it!
Listen, the fact is, we eat more fast food and plain ole food that's bad for us than the rest of the world, and, we also complain more about healthcare than the rest of the world.
Because our healthcare is, actually, a lot worse in ways that can't be explained by Americans just being worse patients. Our rates of medical errors are higher. Our rates of nosocomial infections are higher. Our doctors are genuinely worse but they get paid the most of any nation's doctors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:02 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 2:18 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 84 of 314 (649786)
01-25-2012 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Jon
01-25-2012 1:34 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
And yet obesity is more prevalent in societies with higher caloric intakes and sedentary lifestyles.
I dunno, you see some pretty big beer guts on those starving kids in Africa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 1:34 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 3:44 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 94 of 314 (649807)
01-25-2012 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Jon
01-25-2012 3:44 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
So what's your point?
I dunno, what was yours? It certainly wasn't to address anything I'd said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 3:44 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 4:14 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 314 (649810)
01-25-2012 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Jon
01-25-2012 4:14 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
How does: "And yet obesity is more prevalent in societies with higher caloric intakes and sedentary lifestyles." not address this?
How does it address it? I'm lost as to what you think your single uncited correlation demonstrates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 4:14 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Jon, posted 01-25-2012 5:06 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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