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Author Topic:   Protecting People and Jobs
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 31 of 44 (650089)
01-27-2012 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Perdition
01-27-2012 1:14 PM


then perhaps we're not as moral as we like to think we are.
BINGO.
Corporations are not moral entities. They exist to make money, as much as possible with the least amount of overhead cost.
It wasn't until fairly recent times that America's own corporations were saddled with employee rights.
It seems that leaving corporations to police themselves invites the Fox into the hen house.
Radium Girls - Wikipedia
Edited by 1.61803, : added link

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 32 of 44 (650090)
01-27-2012 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by 1.61803
01-27-2012 1:23 PM


Corporations are not moral entities.
But, but Mitt Romney (and the Supreme Court) says they're people. /cry
It wasn't until fairly recent times that America's own corporations were saddled with employee rights.
Well, the 1930s isn't exactly yesterday, especially since it wasn't until the 1920s or so that corporations really became huge.
It seems that leaving corporations to police themselves invites the Fox into the hen house.
Exactly. But the problem is, unlike in the 30s and 40s, we can't just pass a law in America and expect it to make the lives of people better. With the "smaller" world we live in, a corporation can just move to a "flag of convenience" and continue doing as it wants. If we want to make workers' lives better, we need to go after the only thing a corporation cares about: its profit. If it stops being profitable for a corporation to abuse and exploit its workers, many of them will stop.

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 44 (650092)
01-27-2012 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Perdition
01-27-2012 1:08 PM


In one of my favorite hard sci-fi novels, metanational corporations actually end up being more powerful than countries.
Compared to some countries they already are.
This leads to countries competing to make their corporate climate more corporation friendly, essentially signing away their sovereignty as well as the health of their labor force.
This is a problem beyond the scope of a few tax laws to fix. It's solution will only come from world-wide education and the knowledge that there are better ways to survive than bent over the corporate world's kitchen table.
Jon

Love your enemies!

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 34 of 44 (650095)
01-27-2012 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
01-27-2012 2:02 PM


This is a problem beyond the scope of a few tax laws to fix. It's solution will only come from world-wide education and the knowledge that there are better ways to survive than bent over the corporate world's kitchen table.
I agree, but we can't dictate education policy to foreign nations. All we can do is control what happens within our borders.
I think what we could really use is a summit of developed nations, all of them agreeing to do something together to try and combat these abuses. If all countries put their market-share together and hit the corporations in the profit, then real change can be effected.

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 Message 35 by jar, posted 01-27-2012 3:05 PM Perdition has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 44 (650097)
01-27-2012 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Perdition
01-27-2012 2:53 PM


We could call it "The Old World Order". Even Buz would support that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 36 of 44 (650105)
01-27-2012 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
01-27-2012 3:05 PM


We could call it "The Old World Order".
I might prefer "The Small World Order." But that would inevitably lead to overuse of that supremely annoying song, "It's a Small World After All."

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 44 (650115)
01-27-2012 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Jon
01-27-2012 11:37 AM


Re: Increasing Real Value
Jon writes:
Which is why I've already mentioned that there is considerable pressure on the workforce to make itself more valuable. If the workers don't want to do that, then they are permitted to sit at home unemployed pretending they are too good for any of the jobs out there.
Do you really think that US workers are gonna take courses to make themselves more valuable and not demand wages to reflect their value? Any company that would dump us in favor of cheaper foreigners ought-ta be rode out of town on a rail.
If corporations wont offer us what we want, as consumers we wont give them what they want either. Let them try selling groceries in China. The executives would love the perks over there.
We will simply all work for Walmart.

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 44 (650116)
01-27-2012 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
01-27-2012 5:03 PM


Re: Increasing Real Value
Do you really think that US workers are gonna take courses to make themselves more valuable and not demand wages to reflect their value?
Then the workers will get what jobs they want: none.
Any company that would dump us in favor of cheaper foreigners ought-ta be rode out of town on a rail.
LOL.
If corporations wont offer us what we want, as consumers we wont give them what they want either.
Which is demonstrably untrue. Consumers continue to favor imported goods over home-made ones, even as they get laid off.
We will simply all work for Walmart.
LOL. You do that.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 39 of 44 (650117)
01-27-2012 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
01-27-2012 5:03 PM


Re: Increasing Real Value
Don't worry Phat, the foreigners will still need maids, chauffeurs, gardeners, pool cleaners, janitors ...

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 40 of 44 (650119)
01-27-2012 5:48 PM


Surely Americans of all people understand the need for free trade and free markets? Protectionism isn't supposed to be in your genes. (Except when it's expedient of course). On the other hand maybe you're discovering conscience, liberalism and the plural society?
What next, free health care? (If so, I'll come visit.)
All that aside, have you read 'No Logo'?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 41 of 44 (650120)
01-27-2012 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Tangle
01-27-2012 5:48 PM


Surely Americans of all people understand the need for free trade and free markets?
I'm not a fan of free trade, I prefer "Fair Trade." NAFTA and CAFTA, both free trade agreements, have done a lot to increase the trade deficit and have led us to this current state, where we buy cheap products from exploited workers.
On the other hand maybe you're discovering conscience, liberalism and the plural society?
Many of us have been liberal for a long time. I just hope that we're becoming the majority, not the minority we have been for so long.
What next, free health care?
Health care will never be free, but socialized would be good. I don't see it on the horizon, unfortunately, but if costs keep rising, it will soon become inevitable.
All that aside, have you read 'No Logo'?
No, I haven't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2012 5:48 PM Tangle has replied

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 42 of 44 (650121)
01-27-2012 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Perdition
01-27-2012 5:56 PM


Health care will never be free, but socialized would be good.
Ah, that's what you say before you get it. After that, it's not communism, socialised or even free - it's just available.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Perdition, posted 01-27-2012 5:56 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 43 of 44 (650122)
01-27-2012 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Tangle
01-27-2012 6:21 PM


it's just available.
Would that it were.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2012 6:21 PM Tangle has replied

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 44 of 44 (650124)
01-27-2012 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Perdition
01-27-2012 6:26 PM


Would that it were.
Don't be downhearted, you guys invented endless coffee refills in restaurants - that's much, much harder. (Well at least we think so.)
You'll definately get round to it - so long as you keep electing sane presidents.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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