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Author Topic:   Conventionalism is Dead - Society does NOT determine what is moral.
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 113 (385707)
02-16-2007 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
02-16-2007 5:37 PM


Oh Jesus, not AGAIN.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 02-16-2007 5:37 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 78 of 113 (386134)
02-19-2007 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by anastasia
02-18-2007 5:09 PM


quote:
My main problem is that codes change; what was once bad is now good. What was once good was now bad. But that is soooo weird to me. On a surface level it appears true.
Of course it's true.
Your morality is relative, as is the morality of every person who has ever had a morality.
There is no, and never has been, an objective morality. It's all subjective, and always has been.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by anastasia, posted 02-18-2007 5:09 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 9:59 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 79 of 113 (386137)
02-19-2007 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by anastasia
02-19-2007 11:29 AM


Re: Morality: limited by code
Is it ever OK for one person to call another person a "nigger"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 11:29 AM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 10:00 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 83 of 113 (386159)
02-19-2007 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by anastasia
02-19-2007 9:59 PM


quote:
Morality is objective.
Says who?
Can you give an example of an "objective morality"?
quote:
Morals are of course subject in how close they come to absolute morality.
When you give us an example of an "objective moral", then we will be able to tell how close we are to it, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 9:59 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 11:17 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 113 (386160)
02-19-2007 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by anastasia
02-19-2007 10:00 PM


Re: Morality: limited by code
It relates.
It has to do with if something that was considered moral, then later immoral, could ever return to moral again.
So, is it OK for a person to call another person a "nigger"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 10:00 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 11:27 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 85 of 113 (386161)
02-19-2007 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by anastasia
02-19-2007 10:09 PM


quote:
For example, there could be a god, or even just a natural hard-wired moral code that has nothing to do with god. If it turns out that some actions are 'really' wrong, and some are 'really' good, it would be accurate to say that slavery was always wrong, is now, and always will be. We just didn't KNOW it.
An unknowable objective morality is the same as a nonexistant objective morality.

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 Message 82 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 10:09 PM anastasia has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 93 of 113 (386254)
02-20-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by anastasia
02-19-2007 11:27 PM


Re: Morality: limited by code
quote:
But there is no point. What the heck is the point in bringing the 'n' word into a conversation where I have clearly said that I don't think certain things were ever moral or ever will be?
The point is, though, that the morality of using the word "nigger" has, indeed changed over time.
Back when the word was invented, it was considered a normal word to refer to the "Negro" sub-humans. It was perfectly moral to use it.
Then later, it was considered a very terrible, immoral word in pretty much all cases where it was used. It was a terrible put-down to anybody.
Nowadays, however, in certain cases calling someone "nigger" is not a put down, but a term of affection or group identification. It has been kind of "reclaimed" by the group that used to be most affected by it.
So, it can be considered both moral and immoral, depending upon context.
What you seem to be saying is that once an action, like calling someone "nigger", is considered immoral, it always is.
That is demonstrably not true.
I think you are once again trying to reduce human social behavior into simplistic, soundbites and it just doesn't work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 11:27 PM anastasia has replied

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 94 of 113 (386256)
02-20-2007 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by anastasia
02-19-2007 11:17 PM


Can you give an example of an "objective morality"?
quote:
Sure, my objective for instance is serving God.
That is a nonsensical response.
I wanted an example of "objective" morality, as in, "the opposite of "subjective".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by anastasia, posted 02-19-2007 11:17 PM anastasia has replied

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 104 of 113 (386369)
02-21-2007 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by anastasia
02-20-2007 10:08 PM


Re: Morality: limited by code
quote:
Yes, for the millionth time, I know they thought it was, they were wrong, we know better, and nothing will ever make it right no matter what we think.
So, are you saying that absolute right and absolute wrong exist, but we won't ever really know what they are?
If so, how is that different from a nonexistent absolute morality?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by anastasia, posted 02-20-2007 10:08 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
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