Yesterday while reading A.J.P. Taylor's
The Course of German History, I found an interesting apt statement. He was discussing how in the decade following his 1871 unification of Germany, Bismarck's political machinations led to the formation of various political parties. His use, as a Protestant, of the Roman Catholic Church as a unifying common enemy led to the formation of the Centre, a political party whose only goal and purpose was the defense of the Roman Catholic Church. The Centre had no other political or economic vision and because of their single-minded religious purpose they would adopt any position, back anyone, with the sole criterion that it help protect or promote the Church, or at least oppose anyone or anything opposed to the Church in any way Nothing else mattered to the Centre. Taylor stated about the Centre (page 128):
quote:
Cynical and realist as {Bismarck} was, he could not rival the freedom from the principles and scruples of this world which is given by devotion to a supernatural cause.
I've been discussing creation/evolution on-line for about 25 years now, starting on CompuServe back in the late 1980's. Over and over again, with only a very few exceptions, I have seen every creationist employ the same dishonest conduct. Making blatantly false assertions and refusing to discuss them. Trying one trick after another to derail all attempts at discussion. Using any claim or argument or tactic, no matter how false and deceptive and dishonest, solely on the basis of it opposing evolution. Or rather that it opposed
their false ideas about evolution. Freed completely from the principles of this world, such as truth, honesty, and morality.
The actions of the two creationists in this topic have been exemplary of that traditional creationist misconduct. First Chuck77 posted a ludicrous creationist "response" to an atheist's list about fundamentalists. When in
Message 15 Percy posted the original
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian, we found that all tens statements are true whereas all statements in the list that Chuck posted are false and misleading -- OK, in
Message 93 Percy went through Chuck's list and deemed three to be correct, but I think that he was being far too generous and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Our reactions were to address the list, pointing out its problems and why it's wrong and to try to engage Chuck in discussion about his list. Chuck's response was to avoid discussion and he even tried to change the subject, such as when he started questioning several of us about our religious beliefs, which has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the topic. IOW, he engaged in typical creationist misconduct. Then Buz dropped in supporting the list, though he avoided answering any of our questions about the list. Then he made his claim that abiogenesis is a prerequisite for evolution and went to incredible extremes to avoid supporting or discussing it, again in compliance to standard creationist misconduct.
Some have "come to Buz' defense" by pointing out that he is just too confused to even be able to understand simple English. But then came Buz' revelation in
Message 247 that he has a business. Buz, who appears so befuddled that he cannot tell his head from a hole in the ground
has a business. Buz, who appears incapable of understanding simple English questions and misinterprets everything he reads,
has a business. We already had to wonder how he could possibly function day-to-day, but also running a business? Obviously the problem is not in his mental capabilities, but rather his actions in preventing discussion and engendering discord have been deliberate, the question only being whether he's been doing so consciously or subconsciously, the latter likely being due to the self-delusion that his theology requires of him, something shared with most other creationists.
For whatever reasons or by whatever causes, the creationists in this topic have demonstrated yet again the near impossibility of engaging creationists in discussion. However, one good thing that has come out of it is that by demonstrating to us all the futility of trying to discuss anything with him, Buz has proven to us all the wisdom of the decision to keep him out of the science forum.
Then there are Buz' summation
Message 358 in which he yet again crows about being undefeatable (in his own delusions!) and Chuck's
Message 284 where he crows and congratulates himself on having caused a stir with his ludicrous list. There is the likelihood that their goals are not the same as ours. We are trying to engage in discussion, whereas they appear to be intent on preventing discussion. We seek knowledge and clarification, whereas they appear to oppose knowledge and to sow as much confusion as possible. If those are indeed their goals, then and only then would they have any hope of claiming any kind of victory.
And BTW, Chuck, your list has zero credance, so multiplying that by any factor would still leave its credance at zero.
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