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Author Topic:   In defense of nihilism
Faith
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Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 306 (263938)
11-28-2005 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by robinrohan
11-28-2005 6:07 PM


Re: Proof of God
Question: what kind of proof are you talking about anyway. What would float your boat?

He could show up--

He did show up, Robin, and He left many witnesses behind to tell the story. He spoke to Abraham among others, later to Moses, and then to the entire chosen people, as a pillar of cloud that was fire by night, and the Shekinah glory in the temple, but above all in His miraculous provisions to them. He showed up in the messages He sent direct to His prophets, and finally He showed up in the person of Jesus Christ. He said if we don't believe His witnesses we don't believe Him. And I guarantee you He is going to show up again, when "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD," but then it will be too late to change your mind.

This message has been edited by Faith, 11-28-2005 08:49 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by robinrohan, posted 11-28-2005 6:07 PM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by robinrohan, posted 11-28-2005 8:53 PM Faith has responded
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2005 9:19 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 45 of 306 (263968)
11-28-2005 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by crashfrog
11-28-2005 9:19 PM


Re: Proof of God
Funny, I just reread my post and I don't see anything about an afterlife, or chortling at your destruction. Must be a fantasy of your own.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2005 9:19 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2005 11:10 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 306 (263974)
11-28-2005 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by crashfrog
11-28-2005 11:10 PM


Re: Proof of God
Your tone is pretty clear. "By then it will be too late," etc. And in the past you've described how you're anxious for God's judgement on our society.

You can deny it if you like; I rather suspected you would. But it's pretty obvious from your posts.

I don't have the slightest desire for anyone to suffer no matter how much I want to see God triumph in this world. If I did I wouldn't bother TELLING anyone how to avoid it. When one says it will be too late one is hoping to provoke ACTION to avoid that consequence.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 76 of 306 (264123)
11-29-2005 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by robinrohan
11-28-2005 8:53 PM


Re: Proof of God
but then it will be too late to change your mind.

quote:
Why is He playing this game with us?

I agree with what I've seen of Iano's answer, but I think I'd just add that God is invisible Spirit and He seeks those to worship Him "in spirit and in truth," rather than in outward show, because the flesh is fallen and cannot truly know Him. God speaks in the spirit of man, and if He revealed Himself to mere flesh -- more than He has already done in the miracles attested in the Bible -- people would be compelled to believe but also hate Him, because that is the nature of the flesh, that it is "at enmity with God." He seeks true lovers, in other words, spirit to spirit. Through faith in the sacrifice of Christ the spirit of man that died at the Fall is regenerated and begins to know God again.

This message has been edited by Faith, 11-29-2005 12:48 PM


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 78 of 306 (264126)
11-29-2005 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by robinrohan
11-29-2005 12:49 PM


Re: the concept of "purpose"
I haven't been following this discussion of purpose, but in case it hasn't come up I'd give this definition of the purpose of humanity as written in the Westminster Catechism:

“The chief end of man is to worship God and to enjoy Him forever.”


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 306 (264353)
11-29-2005 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by robinrohan
11-29-2005 9:24 PM


Re: a story for Faith and iano
Your parody of God fails on many points but a main one is that God did not "become incredibly angry" with Adam and Eve. He sent them out of Eden as punishment as well as to keep them from the Tree of LIfe which would confirm them in evil forever if they ate of it, but He did none of it in anger. God also did nothing miraculous in order to provide for them. The world was less hospitable than Eden but no more inhospitable than anyone has encountered in hunting or farming for a living.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by robinrohan, posted 11-29-2005 9:24 PM robinrohan has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 104 of 306 (264433)
11-30-2005 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Modulous
11-30-2005 10:55 AM


Re: a story for Faith and iano
God wasn't angry, He just cursed woman, cursed the serpent, cursed Adam, cursed the ground, planted a flaming sword and evicted them from the Garden...

Calmly, and rationally and with regret, not angrily.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Modulous, posted 11-30-2005 10:55 AM Modulous has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 106 of 306 (264435)
11-30-2005 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Omnivorous
11-30-2005 10:07 AM


Re: a story for Faith and iano
The KJV and many other translations are available online. I use blueletterbible.org but crossway is another site. I see no heatedness in the following:

Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?"
10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."

11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?"
12 Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate."

13 And the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

"Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel."

16 To the woman He said:
"I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you."

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it':

"Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return."

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The snake is still with us, though defeated by Christ on the cross and simply waiting for his final judgment. He no doubt smiled slyly when you said you missed him.

This message has been edited by Faith, 11-30-2005 11:45 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 11-30-2005 10:07 AM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Omnivorous, posted 11-30-2005 12:16 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 110 of 306 (264441)
11-30-2005 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Omnivorous
11-30-2005 12:16 PM


Re: a story for Faith and iano
The Bible in fact has influenced the correction of all abuses, the abuse of women, the abuse of the underprivileged and the abuse of animals in our fallen world. All are endemic to fallen humanity, but God teaches otherwise and that teaching has come to us in the West through the Bible. Funny how the devil has managed to convince people it's the other way around.

This message has been edited by Faith, 11-30-2005 12:57 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Omnivorous, posted 11-30-2005 12:16 PM Omnivorous has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 201 of 306 (268163)
12-12-2005 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by kjsimons
12-12-2005 10:11 AM


Re: God's game - na, just human perverseness, that's all
This very website shows how it is possible for people to believe whatever they want regardless of the evidence. Randman and Faith are just two of many posters here who chose to be willfully ignorant no matter what the facts are. The problem with God(s) is there isn't any evidence of his/their existence and people still feel strongly about it. If God(s) was to make his/their presence known and verifiable it would not in any way interfere with our free will (if such a thing even exists). Saying that having evidence/knowledge of something somehow interferes will our free will would be like saying being shown that 1 + 1 = 2 would interfere with our free will about math.

There is really little point in arguing about these things. God is not playing any games. There is plenty of evidence but it's not of the sort you all demand. I was also unable to appreciate the physical natural evidence at one time. Our dead spirits since the Fall in Eden make it difficult-to-impossible, though there are some blessed souls who do see God in nature.

God is Spirit and we must apprehend Him spiritually. That requires the regeneration of our spiritual faculty. That's something you can ask Him to give you by the way. {AbE: Better to ask that He give you faith in Jesus Christ though, I think on afterthought.}

Because of our blindness God gave us the testimony of eyewitnesses, lots of them, made sure their experiences were written down. Now everybody complains that this, that, or the other makes it impossible for them to believe these eyewitnesses, and argue their case against them no end. Well, sorry, you insist on your own view of it all instead of believing what the witnesses say, which makes you responsible for your own rejection of it in the end.

At least with Christians, nobody's "believing whatever they want." It's quite specific, not at all so arbitary as you are pretending it is. I believe those eyewitnesses and that's the case with Christians in general.

This message has been edited by Faith, 12-12-2005 12:56 PM


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 205 of 306 (268197)
12-12-2005 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by kjsimons
12-12-2005 1:28 PM


Re: God's game
Not just that but all science is declared null and void by those two, they are just don't see it. One doesn't just to pick and choose which parts of science they deem to be correct, they have to either disprove the parts they don't like or grudgingly admit that it appears to be correct, until it can be proven otherwise.

It works both ways. The evos here pick and choose which parts of the Bible or any evidence for God they deem to be correct, and in some cases there's none at all they are willing to bless with their approbation. There's plenty of evidence for God in both nature and the Bible, so as usual it comes down to whether Science trumps God or God trumps Science. Your arrogance in calling those ignorant who believe God trumps Science shows only that you identify with those who are currently in power.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by kjsimons, posted 12-12-2005 1:28 PM kjsimons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by kjsimons, posted 12-12-2005 2:06 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 207 of 306 (268283)
12-12-2005 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by kjsimons
12-12-2005 2:06 PM


Re: God's game
Your arrogance in calling those ignorant who believe God trumps Science shows only that you identify with those who are currently in power.

quote:
I would call it reason triumphing over ignorance and superstition.

Of course you would, but it's just the conviction one has who is on the current politically correct side as I said. Since God certainly does trump Science and the ToE is wrong, it is you who are ignorant and will someday know it.

It's not arrogant to say that the Earth looks like it's ~6 billion years old based on what we've observed.

No, but calling ignorant those who consider "what it looks like" to be merely a massive delusion is arrogant.

Works both ways is the point, as I said.

This message has been edited by Faith, 12-12-2005 03:42 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by kjsimons, posted 12-12-2005 2:06 PM kjsimons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by kjsimons, posted 12-12-2005 4:14 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 209 of 306 (268330)
12-12-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by kjsimons
12-12-2005 4:14 PM


Re: God's game
=================================================================
***THIS IS A PARODY. PLEASE READ BOTH THE QUOTED PARAGRAPH AND MINE***
=================================================================

Listen it is impossible to carry on with someone who wouldn't believe the scientific evidence if it reached up and slapped them in the face. You may remain willfully ignorant if you want to and I reserve the right to call people ignorant if they refuse to to open their eyes to the observable facts. Notice I said observable, anyone can see them. They don't have to have any special mystical belief system or join any secrect club or society. They only have to observe and test what they observe in a scientific manner.

Listen it is impossible to carry on with someone who wouldn't believe the Bible if God did a miracle before their very eyes. You may remain wilfully ignorant if you want to and I reserve the right to call people ignorant if they refuse to open their eyes to the readily available eyewitness evidence of 4000 years of history. Notice I said readily available. Anybody can see it. They don't have to have any special mystical belief system or join any secret club or society. They only have to read what is written by trustworthy people who have been believed by thousands of other trustworthy people.

Told you, it works both ways.

=================================================================
***THIS IS A PARODY. PLEASE READ BOTH THE QUOTED PARAGRAPH AND MINE***
=================================================================

This message has been edited by Faith, 12-13-2005 11:18 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by kjsimons, posted 12-12-2005 4:14 PM kjsimons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by kjsimons, posted 12-12-2005 10:15 PM Faith has responded
 Message 218 by kjsimons, posted 12-13-2005 8:46 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 211 of 306 (268590)
12-13-2005 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by kjsimons
12-12-2005 10:15 PM


Re: God's game
My how the namecalling and other insults come out when I turn your game on you and show that two can play.

This message has been edited by Faith, 12-13-2005 12:25 AM


This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 213 of 306 (268636)
12-13-2005 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by crashfrog
12-13-2005 1:13 AM


Re: God's game
Two insults in a row for no reason. Fascinating.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by crashfrog, posted 12-13-2005 1:13 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by crashfrog, posted 12-13-2005 2:02 AM Faith has responded

  
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