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Author Topic:   In defense of nihilism
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 196 of 306 (268107)
12-12-2005 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by iano
12-12-2005 10:03 AM


Re: God's game
This very website shows how it is possible for people to believe whatever they want regardless of the evidence. Randman and Faith are just two of many posters here who chose to be willfully ignorant no matter what the facts are. The problem with God(s) is there isn't any evidence of his/their existence and people still feel strongly about it. If God(s) was to make his/their presence known and verifiable it would not in any way interfere with our free will (if such a thing even exists). Saying that having evidence/knowledge of something somehow interferes will our free will would be like saying being shown that 1 + 1 = 2 would interfere with our free will about math.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by iano, posted 12-12-2005 10:03 AM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by iano, posted 12-12-2005 11:48 AM kjsimons has responded
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 12:49 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 204 of 306 (268189)
12-12-2005 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by iano
12-12-2005 11:48 AM


Re: God's game
But without knowledge of math you are entitled to think 1+1=345 if you like. With no evidence no one can contradict you. Without absolute proof, your view is a valid as any other. As soon as the knowledge comes you have no free will anymore.

Well then according to your only ignorant people have free will and the more knowledge you have the less free you are.

You don't mean the one about Evolution is a FACT do you?

Not just that but all science is declared null and void by those two, they are just don't see it. One doesn't just to pick and choose which parts of science they deem to be correct, they have to either disprove the parts they don't like or grudgingly admit that it appears to be correct, until it can be proven otherwise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by iano, posted 12-12-2005 11:48 AM iano has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 1:41 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 206 of 306 (268213)
12-12-2005 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
12-12-2005 1:41 PM


Re: God's game
Your arrogance in calling those ignorant who believe God trumps Science shows only that you identify with those who are currently in power.

I would call it reason triumphing over ignorance and superstition.

It's not arrogant to say that the Earth looks like it's ~6 billion years old based on what we've observed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 1:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 3:39 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 208 of 306 (268299)
12-12-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
12-12-2005 3:39 PM


Re: God's game
Listen it is impossible to carry on with someone who wouldn't believe the scientific evidence if it reached up and slapped them in the face. You may remain willfully ignorant if you want to and I reserve the right to call people ignorant if they refuse to to open their eyes to the observable facts. Notice I said observable, anyone can see them. They don't have to have any special mystical belief system or join any secrect club or society. They only have to observe and test what they observe in a scientific manner.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 3:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 5:10 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 210 of 306 (268484)
12-12-2005 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
12-12-2005 5:10 PM


Re: God's game
Listen BLIND Faith, if god wants to do a miracle before me that bring it the fuck on! That is the whole point here! If god truly existed then he/she/it/they would be so obvious that no-one could deny it. Instead this god(s) of yours and others hides from rational review like a cockroach from the light!

The bible is a work written by man in a simpler time to explain the strange and scary world. Grow up and be an adult in the 21st century!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 5:10 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 12-13-2005 12:24 AM kjsimons has not yet responded
 Message 216 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 3:18 AM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 218 of 306 (268714)
12-13-2005 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
12-12-2005 5:10 PM


Re: God's game
Fine let me respond point by point to your ridiculous post.

Listen it is impossible to carry on with someone who wouldn't believe the Bible if God did a miracle before their very eyes.

Well I haven't ever witnessed a miracle so how would you know. You've been introduced to scientific evidence and you have rejected it out of hand with little or no review simply on the basis of it not agreeing with YOUR interpretation of some English version of the Christian bible. And even if a miracle occurred, how are we supposed to link it to your god, why not a different one? How arrogant of you to think that your god is the one and true god.

You may remain wilfully ignorant if you want to and I reserve the right to call people ignorant if they refuse to open their eyes to the readily available eyewitness evidence of 4000 years of history. Notice I said readily available. Anybody can see it.

Eyewitness evidence is the least reliable type of evidence. There have been many studies on this. Physical evidence is much more reliable. Historical accounts are often greatly exaggerated and sometimes are manipulated for political gain.

They don't have to have any special mystical belief system or join any secret club or society.

Ah, religion in general is a "mystical belief system", at least that was what I was referring to, so you are wrong. How many non-christians believe in the christian god?

They only have to read what is written by trustworthy people who have been believed by thousands of other trustworthy people.

Argument from authority, invalid! There is no reason to believe that these people were trustworthy and that even if they were, that what they wrote is to be trusted. It could be that they had good intentions but were still in error in what they wrote.

You may believe anything you want, but if you don't have verifiable evidence of the scientific kind, then it won't trump what we've learned using the methods of science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 12-12-2005 5:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 219 of 306 (268718)
12-13-2005 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by arachnophilia
12-13-2005 3:18 AM


Re: God's game
I wouldn't be suprised that if one looked up the definition of "blind faith" that her picture would be there. Her posts are so berift of logic and reasoning that it is a wonder she is still allowed her.

As far as the bible comments being uncalled for, who the heck are you to tell me that I can't criticise religion. To me religion is a fantasy and reasonable adults would be better off without it.

we're still killing each other and justifying it with religion.

All the more reason to leave religion behind.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 3:18 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by iano, posted 12-13-2005 9:44 AM kjsimons has responded
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 12-13-2005 11:43 AM kjsimons has responded
 Message 248 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 3:49 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 222 of 306 (268733)
12-13-2005 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by iano
12-13-2005 9:44 AM


Re: God's game
Your entitled to your view. But you have no objective basis to show anyone that your view is correct. It is merely assertion.

Unlike many christian posters, I did not claim anything other than what religion was to me. I did not say that I was privy to the one and only TRUTH! Please don't read more into what I've wrote than is there.

Can you point to some non-religious world system that manages to avoid killing and suffering. Communism, National socialism, 'Democracy'

Again, I'm making no claim that there is any system that manages to "avoid killing and suffering". Can YOU name any? I'll give you a hint, christianity isn't one. I can tell you that I would rather live in a socialistic representitive democracy than any theocracy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by iano, posted 12-13-2005 9:44 AM iano has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 231 of 306 (268770)
12-13-2005 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by Faith
12-13-2005 11:33 AM


Re: God's game
I have news for you Faith, those "parodies" of yours only showed how threadbare your arguments against science are. It always comes down to your magical book against observable facts and I'll choose the facts over a book any day.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Faith, posted 12-13-2005 11:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 233 of 306 (268773)
12-13-2005 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by crashfrog
12-13-2005 11:40 AM


Re: God's game
Well I'll play nice and not encourage any further name calling. I probably should not have listed the names of two posters as examples in the one post and I'll not repeat that mistake.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by crashfrog, posted 12-13-2005 11:40 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 236 of 306 (268779)
12-13-2005 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
12-13-2005 11:43 AM


Re: God's game
Ok so my opinions are "self-righteous rude" but when you state
Since God certainly does trump Science and the ToE is wrong, it is you who are ignorant and will someday know it.

you somehow aren't? What gives your opinions more weight than mine?

Your statement here

To me evolution is a fantasy and reasonable adults would be better off without it.

really just shows that you reject science, which has verifiable evidence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 12-13-2005 11:43 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 12-13-2005 12:24 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 241 of 306 (268800)
12-13-2005 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Faith
12-13-2005 12:24 PM


Re: God's game
[And P.S. Rejecting the ToE is not rejecting science as the last thing the ToE is is science.]

Well then since you feel you can define what is and isn't science without credentials, you should move to Kansas and join the school board. They also think that they can redefine science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 12-13-2005 12:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by iano, posted 12-13-2005 2:03 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 246 of 306 (268831)
12-13-2005 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by iano
12-13-2005 2:03 PM


Re: God's game
Most reasonable people understand the difference between faith and science. It appears you don't and I'm not about to try and teach you. Go troll for somebody else.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by iano, posted 12-13-2005 2:03 PM iano has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 249 of 306 (268876)
12-13-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by arachnophilia
12-13-2005 3:49 PM


Re: God's game
criticism and potshot one-liners are different games entirely. if you want to debate whether or not the bible is a fictional account, be my guest. but do it in another thread, and in such a way where you actually intend to defend your position with more than personal opinion.

I hate to be the one to tell you this but any position about the validity or not of any religion is only personal opinion.

so what you're basically claiming is that YOU, not all of us, are more advanced? you're claiming that you not being religious makes you better somehow?

Where they hell did I ever say that?! I would appreciate you not making things up. You were the one that brought up people killing each other in the name of religion and I replied. I also don't think it's a good idea to kill people in the name of nationalism either.

so what you're basically claiming is that YOU, not all of us, are more advanced? you're claiming that you not being religious makes you better somehow?

Here again you make up stuff about what I'm claiming. I do think that religion is a holdover the past and that it currently causes more problems than it solves. I don't consider it a positive thing. I never claimed this makes me better though.

religion being used as a justification for killing people doesn't say anything about religion. ever hear of "social darwinism?" do you think eugenics and genocide justifies overturning darwin's theory of evolution? because that's the standard you're flippantly using here. you're putting the cart before the horse.

Rant on, you brought up religion and killing, not me. I'm not fond of religion even if people aren't killing each other in it's name. I never said anything about overturning anything or banning anything or whatnot. I just think we are better off without it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 3:49 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 4:31 PM kjsimons has responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 252 of 306 (268930)
12-13-2005 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by arachnophilia
12-13-2005 4:31 PM


Re: God's game
it's the logical implication of what you said

No it's not! Those are not my premises, they are yours. I can make anyone look pretty bad if I get to make up their premises for them and then make a conclusion based on those premises. Stop putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

people today are NOT more advanced.

Unfortunately that is true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 4:31 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by arachnophilia, posted 12-13-2005 6:10 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

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