Listen BLIND Faith, if god wants to do a miracle before me that bring it the fuck on!
seriously uncalled for.
The bible is a work written by man in a simpler time to explain the strange and scary world. Grow up and be an adult in the 21st century!
also uncalled for an totally inaccurate. had you read the bible, i think you'd find its world is a lot stranger and scarier than you'd think. angels? demons? evil-eyes? there's a lot of stuff designed to explain in the bible, sure, but mostly it's names and practices. and i don't see the people as any less advanced than we are today, except in the area of technology. i think it's an utter fallacy to assume that people only 2000 years ago were somehow primitive: we're still killing each other and justifying it with religion.
So you don't have to believe in God to go to heaven?
You said that I seemed to be suggesting that believing when there was no evidence was some kind of moral test. As if you look at the call of your conscience and when you examine it it, deduce it must be from God and then chose to believe that God exist. This is not what I mean simply because it all relies on you: you look, you deduce, you chose. Salvation is now reliant on you doing things: works in other words.
It is not like that. God calls you through conscience, God convicts you that you sin, God brings you to the point of wanting to and being able to and actually carrying out the act of repentance (or act of faith (which means turning to him and asking him a couple of things). He does every aspect of it.
He leads to you the water, he shows you your thirst, he lifts the water to your mouth. If you get to that point then you will drink - because you will want to. But you can resist getting to that point by saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no NO!!
When/if you repent (drink) then thats it. He moves in and the evidence you require for believing it is him comes in with it. It's part of the package so to speak. But it is not of you if you get there. It is all of him
"do you not realise that Gods kindness leads you to repentence" John the Baptists words "Repent" Jesus first ministerial words in Matthew "Repent"
Fine let me respond point by point to your ridiculous post.
Listen it is impossible to carry on with someone who wouldn't believe the Bible if God did a miracle before their very eyes.
Well I haven't ever witnessed a miracle so how would you know. You've been introduced to scientific evidence and you have rejected it out of hand with little or no review simply on the basis of it not agreeing with YOUR interpretation of some English version of the Christian bible. And even if a miracle occurred, how are we supposed to link it to your god, why not a different one? How arrogant of you to think that your god is the one and true god.
You may remain wilfully ignorant if you want to and I reserve the right to call people ignorant if they refuse to open their eyes to the readily available eyewitness evidence of 4000 years of history. Notice I said readily available. Anybody can see it.
Eyewitness evidence is the least reliable type of evidence. There have been many studies on this. Physical evidence is much more reliable. Historical accounts are often greatly exaggerated and sometimes are manipulated for political gain.
They don't have to have any special mystical belief system or join any secret club or society.
Ah, religion in general is a "mystical belief system", at least that was what I was referring to, so you are wrong. How many non-christians believe in the christian god?
They only have to read what is written by trustworthy people who have been believed by thousands of other trustworthy people.
Argument from authority, invalid! There is no reason to believe that these people were trustworthy and that even if they were, that what they wrote is to be trusted. It could be that they had good intentions but were still in error in what they wrote.
You may believe anything you want, but if you don't have verifiable evidence of the scientific kind, then it won't trump what we've learned using the methods of science.
I wouldn't be suprised that if one looked up the definition of "blind faith" that her picture would be there. Her posts are so berift of logic and reasoning that it is a wonder she is still allowed her.
As far as the bible comments being uncalled for, who the heck are you to tell me that I can't criticise religion. To me religion is a fantasy and reasonable adults would be better off without it.
we're still killing each other and justifying it with religion.
quote:we're still killing each other and justifying it with religion.
All the more reason to leave religion behind.
We could justify it with all kinds of reasons. The problem is in the killing not with what one uses to justify it.
To me religion is a fantasy and reasonable adults would be better off without it.
Your entitled to your view. But you have no objective basis to show anyone that your view is correct. It is merely assertion. When adults forgoe religion they place something else there instead. Can you point to some non-religious world system that manages to avoid killing and suffering. Communism, National socialism, 'Democracy'
This message has been edited by iano, 13-Dec-2005 02:49 PM
Your entitled to your view. But you have no objective basis to show anyone that your view is correct. It is merely assertion.
Unlike many christian posters, I did not claim anything other than what religion was to me. I did not say that I was privy to the one and only TRUTH! Please don't read more into what I've wrote than is there.
Can you point to some non-religious world system that manages to avoid killing and suffering. Communism, National socialism, 'Democracy'
Again, I'm making no claim that there is any system that manages to "avoid killing and suffering". Can YOU name any? I'll give you a hint, christianity isn't one. I can tell you that I would rather live in a socialistic representitive democracy than any theocracy.
I know your excuse, and your endless vendetta, but there is no reason whatever on this thread for your attitude.
I guess I'd like to know how you excuse your holier-than-thou attitude, given that you had called your opponent some very uncharitable names in the post preceeding his. It doesn't seem to me that you have any basis at all to pretend like you're the innocent victim, or that he wasn't responding in kind to yet another example of your vicious insults.
If you are tested, you give a yes or no answer. The answer is of you either way. But if you are saved all you did was not say no. A test is not a test if the only answer you can give is no or allow God to fill in the yes answer for you.
This may seem like clever dodging in order to avoid me having to say that you are choosing yes/no and thus salvation or no is down to you. A test in other words. But remember, if you 'respond yes' to God, it is only by the workings of the conscience that he gave you. If you respond no then it is of yourself - it is against the conscience he gave you. Yes comes from him, no comes from you