God the father

Which concept, the "loving God," or the "unbelievers burn forever?" Last I knew, both of those concepts were well supported and contradicted in the Bible, depending on whether you're limiting "consistency" to a single book or the entire collected canon.On Hell:

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Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

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Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

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Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

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Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

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Mark 9:43-48
... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

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Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

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John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

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2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

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Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

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Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

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Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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On a loving God:

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John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

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1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

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And on a God who doesn;t actually love everyone:

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Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

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Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

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Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

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Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

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Does God love us? Does God hate us? Does he love the ones he condemns to burn forever in the lake of fire? Other?

Then by all means show us what the passages mean in context. If you think they mean something else when context is included, the onus is on you to support that assertion. I'd very much like to see the reason you believe the passages that support the existence of Hell as a place of eternal punishment in fire are simply "out of context."Two-line replies make for a poor debate, Jar. This isn't an instant message application.

Not when the parent is supposed to be omnipotent.

...If I lost my child in a car accident, but I was omnipotent, I would edit reality so that the car accident never happened. Or bring the child back to life. Because I would love my child.Your argument centers on the idea that parental influence is limited - but omnipotence removes any and all limitations on the ability of the parent to influence their child. An omnipotent parent doesn't need to worry about their child being burned by a hot stove -the parent could simply create a force-field around the hot stove, or make the child invulnerable to injury from heat, or magically make sure that the child knows better and consistently avoids touching hot stoves.As a normal paren't you're limited, but an omnipotent parent is not.Beyond that, the father-figure God is supposed to have made up all the rules in the first place. What loving parent would ever create a set of rules where one or more paths can potentially lead to the death of their child? We aren't talking about a human parent working within the Universe as it's presented - we're talking about the supposed Creator of the Universe! If the Omnipotent Creator doesn't want its children to die or suffer, then the Omnipotent Creator is under no obligation to create the Universe such that suffering and death are possible!Whether you believe that "Hell" is a lake of eternal unquenchable fire and burning punishment or simply permanent death and the cessation of existence, God is supposed to be the one who made it that way. The Omnipotent Creator could have simply created a Universe where nobody ever dies. Therefore each and every death, regardless of "Free will," is the choice of the Creator, not the created.That's the difference of omnipotence. If you have the ability to have an effect, then you are ultimately responsible for that effect happening or not. An omnipotent parent can simply give eternal life to all of its children, whether they want it or not, and can even make them want it, because that's what omnipotence means!If the child is not restored to life, then that is the decision of the parent. And the root of this thread is "what kind of parent would make that decision and let their child suffer the consequences?"Edited by Rahvin, : No reason given.

Correct on the former but utterly wrong on the latter.An omnipotent parent may choose not to use their omnipotence to help their child.An omnipotent parent can choose to do so regardless of the situation, however, because omnipotence means the ability to do anything.Name one example of a situation where an omnipotent parent cannot help their child succeed.

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omnipotent
   [om-nip-uh-tuhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
almighty or infinite in power, as God.
2.
having very great or unlimited authority or power.

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Definition 1) is the one used to apply to God, or at least was in every Christian denomination of which I am aware. I was brought up in Congregational, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Christian Reformed churches and schools, and all of them taught that God was all-powerful, able to make anything happen simply because he wanted it to, Creator of the Universe, with unlimited ability to change realiy to match his will.You know, omnipotent.Apparently you've been using a completely different definition of the word.I suspect that if you went into any random 10 churches anywhere in the world and asked if God was capable of performing some absurdly impossible feat, like say, a miracle involving an event that should not be possible according to the normal laws of physics, they would answer in the affirmative. If you asked those same people whether God can do anything at all, with no limits, I imagine they would also all answer in the affirmative.I think you're talking about a different God than any concept of the character I have ever heard of. Certainly not the version typically included in Christian dogma, who supposedly Created the world and all life in it in six days, and who very clearly is supposed to be the one who set all of the rules of existence, right down to the requirement that sin be punished with death, and the absolution of that debt through a bizarre and brutal human scapegoating ritual where God sacrificed himself to satisfy the consequence of his own rules.Or, perhaps more humorously: You keep using this word, Omnipotent. I do not think it means what you think it means.