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Author Topic:   is there any case for Intelligent design in man made products
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 14 of 72 (653837)
02-24-2012 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by lbm111
02-24-2012 6:58 PM


lbm111 writes:

How do you know intelligence exists?


Because, when we look away from your posts, we see it in abundance.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by lbm111, posted 02-24-2012 6:58 PM lbm111 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by lbm111, posted 02-24-2012 7:26 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 16 of 72 (653840)
02-24-2012 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by lbm111
02-24-2012 7:26 PM


lbm111 writes:

hahahaha you're too funny


Yes.
Funny AND correct.

It's a gift.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by lbm111, posted 02-24-2012 7:26 PM lbm111 has taken no action

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 25 of 72 (653977)
02-25-2012 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by lbm111
02-25-2012 2:34 PM


lbm111 writes:

but to scientifically claim something exists based on evidence we cannot rely on what people 'feel' is true. We need to measure


And we do measure intelligence.
quote:
Intelligence has been defined in different ways, including the abilities, but not limited to, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, reasoning, learning, having emotional knowledge, retaining, planning, and problem solving.

These are things that are observed and measured every day.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by lbm111, posted 02-25-2012 2:34 PM lbm111 has taken no action

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 37 of 72 (654267)
02-28-2012 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by lbm111
02-28-2012 11:20 AM


Re: I understand your flow, now
lbm111 writes:

I would argue that we cannot meaningfully define it and in a fundamental sense it does not exist.


What exactly doesn't exist?
What is it that you are actually claiming doesn't exist?
Please be specific.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by lbm111, posted 02-28-2012 11:20 AM lbm111 has taken no action

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 42 of 72 (654710)
03-03-2012 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Portillo
03-03-2012 3:18 AM


Portillo writes:

When it is a high tech factory, with artifical language, decoding systems, memory banks, information, control systems, organization and a replication system. It is rational to infer an intelligent cause.


No. It would not be rational to infer an intelligent cause.

If you are in a factory watching humans manufacture supercomputers, then you would know that supercomputers had an intelligent cause.
In fact, it would require a very poor grasp of reality to think otherwise.

But if we look at a biological cell, we do not see any intelligent cause manufacturing it.
And to infer one would be baseless conjecture.

{abe}
"...with artifical language" should have given you enough of a clue as to the flaw in your statement.
Can you name a single artificial object that occurs without an intelligent cause?

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Portillo, posted 03-03-2012 3:18 AM Portillo has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by lbm111, posted 03-05-2012 5:37 PM Panda has taken no action
 Message 47 by lbm111, posted 03-05-2012 5:37 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 49 of 72 (654949)
03-05-2012 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by lbm111
03-05-2012 5:37 PM


lbm111 writes:

That is not an argument.


Correct.
It was a statement of fact.

lbm111 writes:

You are free to make whatever suppositions about them being intelligent you want but it does not prove it irrefutably.


No suppositions are needed: we have a lot of evidence of intelligence in humans.
But if, for some absurd reason, you think that humans aren't intelligent, then I doubt that any evidence will convince you of such a self-evident fact.

lbm111 writes:

Unless you mean you know it in the same way that people just know God is with them.


No, no. We know people are intelligent from testing and measuring.
It is not simply made up because it makes us feel better.

So - are you honestly claiming that you do not know if humans are intelligent or not?
When you look at a human-made factory filled with humans building objects designed by humans - you just shrug and go "I do not know if any intelligence was involved."?


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by lbm111, posted 03-05-2012 5:37 PM lbm111 has taken no action

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2985 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 58 of 72 (663977)
05-28-2012 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Portillo
05-28-2012 4:38 AM


Portillo writes:

Detecting design is a normal part of science.


When scientists see a pocket-watch in the grass why do they not say "That grass was designed!"?

CRYSTALS!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Portillo, posted 05-28-2012 4:38 AM Portillo has taken no action

  
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