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Author Topic:   is there any case for Intelligent design in man made products
Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 41 of 72 (654708)
03-03-2012 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by lbm111
02-24-2012 6:46 AM


Thats why Stephen C Meyer says, "Design theorists do no infer design just because natural processes cannot explain the origin of biological systems, but because these systems manifest the distinctive hallmarks of intelligently designed systems - that is, they possess features that in any other realm of experience would trigger the recognition of an intelligent cause."

So when a scientist observes that a cell is more complex than a supercomputer. When it is a high tech factory, with artifical language, decoding systems, memory banks, information, control systems, organization and a replication system. It is rational to infer an intelligent cause.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

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Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 57 of 72 (663970)
05-28-2012 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Tangle
03-03-2012 9:13 AM


quote:
The design argument was decent enough until we started understanding things about our world or until you bring a religion into it.

That intelligent design is a viable alternative scientific theory, as long as it doesnt have a religious agenda is a fair point. One scientific discipline where we see intelligent design is engineering. Engineers and technicians use design and organisation to produce complex designs and systems. Engineers dont leave matter and energy on its own to develop something by random chance and time. The notion of intelligent design is not a mysterious, unknown theory. It is something that we know about from repeatability and experience in our everyday lives. A design pattern is a strategy or logic, for which there is only one known cause in the universe. Intelligence. Charles Lyells subtitle to his book the Principles of Geology is, "An attempt to explain the former changes of the Earth's surface by reference to causes now in operation".

So if your going to explain an event in the past, you have to invoke a cause which is known to produce the effect in question. What is the cause now in operation, that produces digital code? What is the cause for the production of information? Intelligence. The information scientist Henry Quastler said that, "The creation of new information is habitually associated with conscious activity." Eugene Myers, who was involved in the human genome project said, "What really astounds me is the architecture of life. The system is extremely complex. Its like it was designed. Theres a huge intelligence there. I dont see that as being unscientific. Others may, not me." Detecting design is a normal part of science.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the Lord have spoken it, and will do it. - Ezekial 22:14


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Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 61 of 72 (664544)
06-01-2012 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Dr Adequate
05-28-2012 7:28 AM


Quite so. Welcome to evolution. Quite so. Welcome to evolution. Wipe your feet on the mat, they've got apologetics on them.

And what evidence is that. DDT resistance?

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the Lord have spoken it, and will do it. - Ezekial 22:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 7:28 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-01-2012 10:15 PM Portillo has replied

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 63 of 72 (664563)
06-01-2012 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Dr Adequate
06-01-2012 10:15 PM


I mean whats the evidence of evolution that we see in the present.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the Lord have spoken it, and will do it. - Ezekial 22:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-01-2012 10:15 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-01-2012 10:46 PM Portillo has replied

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 65 of 72 (664566)
06-01-2012 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Dr Adequate
06-01-2012 10:46 PM


Occuring in the present. Im not sure what point your referring to.

Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the Lord have spoken it, and will do it. - Ezekial 22:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-01-2012 10:46 PM Dr Adequate has replied

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 Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-01-2012 11:40 PM Portillo has replied

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 67 of 72 (665318)
06-11-2012 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Dr Adequate
06-01-2012 11:40 PM


You claimed in general that coded information is the product of intelligence. But this is untrue in the particular case to which you wish to apply it, namely living organisms. We know that the genetic code in (for example) a daffodil was caused by two daffodils unintelligently having sex, and that unintelligent (and, of course, non-supernatural) processes of DNA copying and recombination and mutation and so forth were all that were required to produce the code. That's what we see.

Living organisms can reproduce and pass on genetic code, but natural selection doesnt explain the origin of code. The problem is what you need to get natural selection in the first place. Natural selection presupposes a self-replicating organism that can reproduce and create offspring. The organism is conducted by information in the DNA, which is what you are trying to explain the origin of. Biochemist Christian de Duve says, "Theories of prebiotic natural selection need information, which implies that they have to presuppose what is to be explained in the first place." Its like the guy who falls in a pit and says no problem, Ill go home and get a ladder. So he runs home, gets a ladder, comes back to the pit and climbs out.

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the Lord have spoken it, and will do it. - Ezekial 22:14

This message is a reply to:
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Portillo
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 70 of 72 (665326)
06-11-2012 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Dr Adequate
06-11-2012 11:22 PM


How do you determine that a living organism is unintelligent?

Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.


Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the Lord have spoken it, and will do it. - Ezekial 22:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-11-2012 11:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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