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Author | Topic: Whether to leave this forum or not | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi foreveryoung,
It is obvious that I am quite despised here. Not by me. In fact I wouldn't mind your participation on a couple threads
Dogs will be Dogs will be ???Speciation + Evolution = More Diversity Transitional Fossils Show Evolution in Process and How "novel" features evolve when that gets promoted My point of view obviously rubs people the wrong way on this site. What rubs people the wrong way is when you say things they know are false, and particularly if you don't appear willing to learn where you are wrong. I've learned a lot on this forum, and as a result have changed my opinions on a number of issues, but facts remain facts, and denial of facts can be a problem. Such as denial of the age of the earth: see Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 I do not want to stay in a place where my presence is not welcome. Well now your presence is requested in a couple of places. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi again foreveryoung
You have to convince me they are facts before I will believe them. You say the age of the earth is a fact. I read a bit of your age correlations paper. I am not convinced ... your answer is here on the Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 thread. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi shadow71
It appears to me that metaphysical naturalists do require faith. The faith that everything is and comes from natural explanations and that anyone who believes otherwise is not really competent. Science is based on the assumption (a) that objective evidence is a part of reality rather than illusion, and (b) that we can understand reality by testing concepts against objective evidence. Assumptions aren't faith, they are tentative positions that can be demonstrated to be false, while faith is not based on an assumption that god/s exist.
Message 65: Do Scientists have evidence that everthing has arisen by natual means? That the origin of life came about by natural means? That the Universe came about by natural means? That all benefical mutations are random? That the CRISPR systems are not dedicated nonrandom beneficial change? Science is only able to test natural means (unless you have a source for employing supernatural means), so (until there is evidence otherwise) it is rational to proceed with explaining objective evidence with natural means up until those means fail. Science is a feed-back system that seeks to eliminate false concepts through falsification by testing against objective evidence, thus reaching closer approximations to what we assume to be reality as time passes and more knowledge is derived of what seems to work and what we know doesn't work. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi again shadow71,
My point is that the metaphysical naturalists do not allow for anything but natural. Therefore a faith in nature. You can't thread a nut on a nail. You may think you can jam one on, but that still does not make the nail a bolt. Science is currently unable to employ supernatural, so it uses the tools available to study what it can.
The Methodological naturalists doe allow for faith ... Yet, curiously, many scientists are people of faith, so obviously they have allowed faith in their worldview.
... while learning what nature is and studying and learning from nature. Using nature and natural processes to study nature and natural processes, what an amazing concept.
I agree science is only able to test natural means, but it does not have to rule out supernatural means ... Amazingly, the evidence is that many people of faith do not rule out supernatural means while they use nature and natural processes to study nature and natural processes, but instead are focused on what nature and natural processes can tell us about nature and natural processes. Would you not agree that the more we know about nature and natural processes, then the more we know about the created world? Should scientists have to allow for a flat earth or a geocentric earth in order to make room for specific faiths when the evidence clearly shows that these concepts are falsified? Should scientists have to allow for a world wide flood and a young earth in order to make room for specific faiths when the evidence clearly shows that these concepts are falsified? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : make room?by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
is or isn't?
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi again foreveryoung,
So the vast majority of christians don't even believe there is such a thing as a bible? They aren't christians in my book. Two points: (1) cognitive dissonance predicts this reaction, and(2) remember this if you ever try to argue that there is a majority of Christians that support any particular cause or concept. And if you mean they aren't young-earth-fundamentalist-flood-literalist Christians then, (a) that was the point and,(b) they are not the majority, Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi foreveryoung,
... I have glazed over eyes right now. Understandable. Read about Cognitive Dissonance, then, when your eyes unglaze, go back to Message 105. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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