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Author Topic:   No genetic bottleneck proves no global flood
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


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Message 20 of 140 (663409)
05-24-2012 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Wounded King
05-24-2012 9:47 AM


No bottleneck
In addition to the lack of a genetic bottleneck, we have the opposite--continuity of many haplogroups across the time period when the flood is claimed to have occurred (ca. 4,350 years ago).
By this I mean we have in most areas of the world continuity of haplogroups that existed prior to 4,350 years ago to dates after 4,350 years ago.
One example (of many): A skeleton from a cave in southern Alaska was dated to 10,300 years ago. That skeleton had haplotype D4h3. That same haplotype was found in a number of living individuals, showing that there was no depopulation during the past 10,300 years.
The presence of many of these examples of continuity is evidence that there was no global flood with the time periods covered.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Wounded King, posted 05-24-2012 9:47 AM Wounded King has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 138 of 140 (732518)
07-07-2014 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by CreationPigeon
07-07-2014 6:41 PM


Bottleneck? Or continuity?
More genetic research will probably reveal more. The micro-evolution of the original animal kinds and diversification of the human race that occurred after the flood probably caused scientists to think the bottleneck was 70,000 years old, rather than 4,300 years old.
Welcome!
If you are proposing a bottleneck at 4,300 years ago, give or take a few, then you have to explain the massive evidence for continuity, rather than a bottleneck, at that time period.
In analyses of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), there are a lot of examples where skeletal DNA from prior to 4,300 years ago matches the mtDNA of living individuals in the same area.
One such example is from On Your Knees Cave in southern Alaska. There, a skeleton dated to 10,300 years ago has the exact same rare mtDNA haplotype (D4h3) as 46 or more living individuals found along the coasts of both north and south America. And interestingly, that same rare haplotype has been found in a Clovis skeleton dating to about 12,600 years ago in Wyoming.
My own archaeological research has produced a similar match from 5,300 years ago to living individuals in the western US.
If there had been a global flood about 4,300 years ago, those mtDNA types would have been eliminated in living individuals, to be replaced by the haplotypes of Noah's female companions.
That this is not what we see, this is solid evidence that there was no global flood in the time period you claim.
I would be interested in your reaction to these facts.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by CreationPigeon, posted 07-07-2014 6:41 PM CreationPigeon has not replied

  
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