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Author Topic:   No genetic bottleneck proves no global flood
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


(1)
Message 4 of 140 (655317)
03-09-2012 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
03-09-2012 9:54 AM


Re: Origin of the example.
First, even if there was some super genome if the Biblical flood stories were true there would still only be at best 14 copies of it to work with and that is still a bottleneck.
This seems to totally miss the entire point of the 'Supergenome' gambit. It might technically be a bottleneck if we assume that the survivors of the flood were typical of the pre-flood populations but allowing for a 'Supergenome' it is a bottleneck in a population with, by definition, a genetic composition drastically different to what we are used to analysing and the signature of such a bottleneck might be expected to be similarly drastically different.
I can come up with plenty of ad hoc pseudoscientific Supergenome explanations that could account for this. In fact when this topic came up on Faith's The End of Evolution By Means of Natural Selection thread she ended up, with a little help from me, proposing a hypothetical post flood population whose members were all superpolyploid acting as massive reservoirs of genetic variation and this was subsequent to her previous proposal that all of the extra required alleles would have been found in what is now 'junk' DNA.
Throw a little 'Salty' Davison style chromosomal rearrangements into the mix and I'm sure after a few generations we could have you a nicely assorted set of genetically diverse organisms, admittedly for humans and a flood date ~2304 BCE this only gives us about 215 generations to play with assuming a generation time of about 20 years. But I'm sure with a positive attitude and a little bit of imagination we could come up with something.
As to the ignoring of evidence that makes such ad hoc explanations blatantly counterfactual, what were you expecting from creationists?
TTFN,
WK
P.S. Now I have this dark urge to do a Lam and start trolling the forum as a creationist/Idist.

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 Message 3 by jar, posted 03-09-2012 9:54 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


(3)
Message 19 of 140 (663406)
05-24-2012 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Stargaze
05-24-2012 9:01 AM


According to AIG they're stating that the human genome shows little genetic variation.
That is reasonable, there isn't a huge amount of human genetic variation compared to some organisms. Unfortunately when AIG try and extend this observation to support their literalist interpretation of genesis things get a lot more iffy.
They state that ..
This study concluded with the possibility that 50 individuals may have founded the entire population of Europe. This evidence is also quite consistent with a historical global flood.
But I find it hard to interpret a severe bottleneck with a population size of 50, overlooking the fact that the paper actually talks about 'effective' population size which is often a much lower value than the actual population (Reich et al., 2001), giving rise to the northern european human population between 15,000 to 50,000 years ago as consistent with an actual population size of 8 people giving rise to the entire human population of the world ~4000 years ago.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
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