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Author Topic:   Superiority of the 'Protestant Canon'?
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 62 of 154 (671570)
08-27-2012 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Artemis Entreri
08-27-2012 2:06 PM


Re: Jude *quotes* Enoch
quote:
I am mostly talking about the "i read the bible all by myself and now I am going to create my own faith" christians. I think "most" evangelical protestants fall into this category (Baptists, Pentacostals, 7th day adventist); aka the American Christians. you know the sort of crazy that isn't-allowed-in-Europe-Christians.

I never understood why a so called "professional" church guy had any more of a mind to understand scripture than a layman.

And while I agree that some can read what they want into scripture, this goes for churches as well as individuals.

Finally, it is my belief that if one searches for truth with a sincere heart, truth will find them.

OFF TOPIC
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Artemis Entreri, posted 08-27-2012 2:06 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

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 Message 64 by Artemis Entreri, posted 08-27-2012 4:10 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 78 of 154 (811686)
06-10-2017 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Davidjay
06-10-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Protestant Canon made in 1850's
Davidjay writes:

Consequently any real discussion, would have to differentiate between Jesus doctrine and lifestyle and religion, compared to the false con job and marketing job of the damnable perverted church system. The same church system that persecuted Jesus, persecutes real Christians today.

jar and I discussed a lot of this both in this current topic and in The God That Paul Marketed Over Time

You may find the conversation interesting.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:54 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:35 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 94 of 154 (811962)
06-13-2017 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
06-12-2017 10:18 PM


Truth Carried Through History
Faith writes:

The writings included in the canon were determined by the early church leaders and others down the centuries to be authored by the Holy Spirit. No thinking person who has the Holy Spirit needs any further test.

Do you believe that the church...(The Body Of Christ) has survived solely because some of its members had the Holy Spirit and thus preserved the truth for future generations?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 06-12-2017 10:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 06-13-2017 7:49 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 06-13-2017 8:29 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 99 of 154 (811998)
06-13-2017 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
06-13-2017 10:10 PM


Re: Truth Carried Through History
Some Theologians disagree with you.
Wiki writes:

Some Christian theologians identify the Holy Spirit with the Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Breath) in Jewish scripture, and with many similar names including: the Ruach Elohim (Spirit of God), Ruach YHWH (Spirit of Yahweh), Ruach Hakmah (Spirit of Wisdom);[5][6] In the New Testament it is identified, among others, with the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Truth, the Paraclete and the Holy Spirit.[7][8][9]

What makes you think that the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 06-13-2017 10:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 06-14-2017 6:55 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 101 of 154 (812003)
06-14-2017 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
06-14-2017 1:56 AM


Re: Truth Carried Through History
jar has always been known for his contrarian (Jewish) views on Christianity. He does his homework and has some well thought out arguments supported by scripture, but where he and I disagree is that he focuses on the content of scripture in light of human logic, reason, and reality and is anti-pauline.

As an example, note my summation of his old topic Who can be saved? A Christian perspective. To be honest, his entire argument that Christianity is based upon what we do rather than what Jesus did is presupposing that Christianity is really little more than reformed Judaism.

For the peanut gallery here at EvC it plays well chiefly because few here are inclined to believe in God (as marketed through mainstream Protestantism) and thus jars logic persuades many of them...most notably ringo. Though not a strict Creationist as you are, I tend to agree with the premise that God gave the church the Holy Spirit and that through that impartation, understanding of the Bible increases. The other side will have you believing that much of what is taught (if not all) is a myth and that the bottom line is human behavior and actions.

I won't go so far as to disagree with the commands (by Jesus) to GO and DO.

Going out of my way to argue against such a belief makes me look stupid and makes Christians out to be pious, sanctimonious, and a stumbling block for human solutions.

Where I most strongly disagree with jar is that he would likely refuse Gods help even if it could be proven to be offered. Perhaps he thinks it nobler to fight the good fight yourself rather than ask for help.

All I know is that I could never have achieved 331 days of sobriety purely through my own efforts. On the other hand, I don't believe that God simply zapped me and that I was purified, sanctified and glorified. To me, a good Christian has a balance...a communion, if you will. Jesus and we do it together. No Priest needed either. The Protestant Canon emphasizes a relational communion with God.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 1:56 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 06-14-2017 7:01 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 112 of 154 (812163)
06-15-2017 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by LamarkNewAge
06-15-2017 12:57 AM


Re: Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
This type of understanding is not a scholarly intellectual understanding. Lets discuss the Trinity in that thread rather than this one. This thread is to discuss the Protestant Canon.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-15-2017 12:57 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 113 of 154 (812164)
06-15-2017 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by LamarkNewAge
06-14-2017 10:46 PM


Re: Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
LNA writes:

I would perhaps be inclined to think that Paul felt that Jesus was still alive but in a spirit body.

I don't think he felt that the Holy Spirit was the same thing as Jesus Christ (whether when he was alive or after the cross ). I am able to allow for a rare terminology use in Romans 8:9 for the Holy Spirit, but Paul would, in that case, then not consider it as Jesus.

Consider that Paul had an encounter on the Road to Damascus. Though he claims he saw no one, he heard a voice that said" I am Jesus whom you are persecuting." As far as Spirit and spirits go, there is to me only two classes.
1) The Holy Spirit
2) The rest of them

Thus in my mind it would be amiss to suggest that Jesus had any other spirit.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-14-2017 10:46 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by jar, posted 06-15-2017 9:01 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 115 of 154 (812167)
06-15-2017 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by jar
06-15-2017 9:01 AM


Re: Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
jar writes:

The major Canons are the Western Protestant Canon and the Western Roman Catholic Canon and the Orthodox Canon. Other Canons are the two Ethiopian Canons and the Samaritan Canon and of course the Jewish Canon.

The question is why is the "Protestant Canon" superior to any of the others?

To start with, I suppose we would have to list the differences as to what each Canon teaches.

I have not done the research.

Do the Canons differ substantially?

Must everything be included? Is the longest one the most accurate or is it chock full of syncretistic mythos?

add by edit:

jar,in another thread writes:

This (Matthew 25) is reported as Jesus speaking directly, not the editorial ambiguity found in the revisionist Gospel of John.

Remember Faith, many of us here have actually read the Bible, not just what the Apologists make up.

Is the Gospel of John included in all of the Canons you mentioned or do some omit it?

Edited by Phat, : added point


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by jar, posted 06-15-2017 9:01 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 06-15-2017 10:07 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 117 by ringo, posted 06-15-2017 12:26 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 118 of 154 (812537)
06-17-2017 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by ringo
06-15-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
in matters of belief, accuracy is colored by what we prefer to be true, though some critics allege that human nature prefers the God Who Is to NOT be true.

What is it specifically about the God I market that you think is dishonest? I need to know...


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by ringo, posted 06-15-2017 12:26 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by ringo, posted 06-17-2017 11:42 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 120 by Faith, posted 06-17-2017 11:53 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 127 of 154 (812615)
06-18-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
06-18-2017 9:28 AM


Re: All New Testament collections are essentially Roman Catholic.
Well it could be because LNA embraces some of the Zoroastrianistic teachings, which according to what I have read are stranger and more unbelievable than the stuff you study.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 06-18-2017 9:28 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 138 of 154 (812925)
06-21-2017 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by LamarkNewAge
06-20-2017 1:50 AM


Re: Muratorion Canon or Muratorion Fragment?
Could there have been an unknown committee of canon?

In the 100s AD?

Why would it have been unknown?

Remember the word "occult" refers to hidden knowledge.....


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-20-2017 1:50 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 147 of 154 (824350)
11-27-2017 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by jar
08-24-2012 10:54 AM


Re: What is a Canon?
jar writes:

The issue is why the Protestant canon is superior.

Why must a true Canon contain the New Testament?

Why would Jesus be excluded from any Canon?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by jar, posted 08-24-2012 10:54 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by jar, posted 11-27-2017 9:37 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12577
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 150 of 154 (824585)
11-30-2017 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by LamarkNewAge
06-22-2017 5:32 PM


Re: Muratorion Canon or Muratorion Fragment?
LNA writes:

I think Marcion understood Paul a lot better than the "orthodox" but that was because he rejected the Pastoral Epistles

How would he have understood Paul? Had he met him? What makes one belief paradigm acceptable over another? What makes Reincarnation more or less probable than Resurrection? Why do humans pick and choose one canon over another? Why do some rely on a Source for their argument while others "make up" their own conclusion based only on logic, reason, and reality?
Use your own words and keep pasting to a minimum. I would prefer it if you simply used links rather than quotes. (You do know how to make a link, dont you? Use the peek feature to find out how it is done)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-22-2017 5:32 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by AlexCaledin, posted 12-10-2017 8:09 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
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