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Author Topic:   What Genesis Two Says
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2728 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 10 of 51 (655684)
03-12-2012 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Trixie
03-12-2012 4:07 PM


Hi, Trixie.
There is a little grammatical glitch involved in all of this, though. The King James Version of Gen 2:19 (which you cited) says this:
quote:
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
However, in the New International Version, it says this:
quote:
Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.
The KJV's past tense is changed into the past perfect tense in the NIV. The use of past perfect specifically means that this element is being introduced out of chronological sequence: it happened before this point in the narrative, but not at this point. I can't speak to the correctness of using one tense or the other, but there is at least a way to weasel out here.
Then, in verse 20, it says this:
quote:
So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.
So, when I read the whole part about the creation of animals and man, to me it sounds more like it's saying this:
"Adam needed a helper, and God was going to make one. There were animals, which God had made before, and Adam gave them all names, but none of them were a suitable helper for Adam. So, God made a woman to be Adam's helper."
From this, I don't know that there's much of a case for the two chapters contradicting one another in terms of the sequence of events. Of course, that hinges on whether or not the NIV's use of past perfect tense was justified.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Trixie, posted 03-12-2012 4:07 PM Trixie has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2012 5:17 PM Blue Jay has replied
 Message 41 by arachnophilia, posted 06-02-2012 1:56 AM Blue Jay has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2728 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 24 of 51 (655723)
03-12-2012 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
03-12-2012 5:17 PM


Hi, Paul.
PaulK writes:
I believe that this is an example of the NIV being guided by apologetic concerns rather than the text.
Is NIV known for doing that? I don't know much about it, to be honest.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 03-12-2012 5:17 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by PaulK, posted 03-13-2012 2:40 AM Blue Jay has replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2728 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 31 of 51 (655746)
03-13-2012 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by PaulK
03-13-2012 2:40 AM


Hi, Paul.
I just read a few Wikipedia articles on things like the NIV, dynamic and formal equivalence and Bible version debate, I realize that you're right: there's some fishy, weaselly things going on in Bible translation that allow the translator's philosophy to dictate how the translation should appear in English.
After reading those Wiki articles, I have a hard time imagining how I could ever trust what anybody thinks the Bible says.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by PaulK, posted 03-13-2012 2:40 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 03-13-2012 11:01 AM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied
 Message 40 by onifre, posted 05-31-2012 11:51 AM Blue Jay has not replied

  
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