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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Social Issues and Creation/Evolution ⇒

The problem with science II

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Author Topic:   The problem with science II
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5547 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006

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Message 12 of 233 (315139)
05-25-2006 2:04 PM 		Reply to: Message 7 by Sour
05-24-2006 11:49 PM

Monty Hall?
Sour writes:
​
The Monty Hall dilemna is another good counter-intuitive example where I know my initial human experience is simply wrong.
Would you care to elaborate? I never heard of that dilema before. (Or may be I just don`t recognize the name)
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5547 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006

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Message 22 of 233 (315258)
05-26-2006 8:49 AM 		Reply to: Message 20 by JavaMan
05-26-2006 7:23 AM

Re: Life and Reason
JavaMan writes:
​
What I'm trying to do is contrast scientific explanations of human nature with the actual experience of living. The former are abstractions or generalizations of reality, the latter is the reality itself.
Is it? Really? I would have said exactly the oposite!! Scientific exploration is our only hope to ever get in touch to reality itself, while our daily experience of living is a totally abstract concept that exist only in our mind. Funy how that happens
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5547 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006

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Message 23 of 233 (315261)
05-26-2006 8:57 AM 		Reply to: Message 17 by Sour
05-26-2006 12:28 AM

Re: Monty Hall?
Thanks for the link. That is a very interesting puzzle. I had heard of it before, but didn`t know it is called Monty Hall effect. What`s Monty Hall, anyways?
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5547 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006

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Message 27 of 233 (315273)
05-26-2006 9:31 AM 		Reply to: Message 25 by ikabod
05-26-2006 9:09 AM

Re: Life and Reason
no , sorry but i must support Javaman here .. reality is where we live and thats inside are own heads , minds if i may use the word .
in my reality celery taste horrid ,i choke on its taste , my mother loves its taste .. "reality - tv" shows are utter rubbish and i always turn off or change channel , to my closest work colleagues they are a must see event ... like enjoy both classical and moden dance music .. to my father both are just noise ..
​
any scientific analysis of each of the above will show that all "percever's" they get the same input , but our personal reality ..ie interaction with those input , differ .
Thanks for making my point. The reallity in our head is completely subjective, as you pointed out, and there is no way we can agree over its meaning. You hate celery, Your mother loves it. Which one is right? There is no answer. How can it be "real" then? It`s just a projection in your mind (or your mother`s) of the actual reality of a celery which we can get to by carefull analysis based on chemistry, human physiology, human psycology, etc... All these are branches of science. Granted, they are just an aproximation towards reality. That`s why I characterized it as a hope to understand reality.
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5547 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006

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Message 33 of 233 (315308)
05-26-2006 10:42 AM 		Reply to: Message 28 by JavaMan
05-26-2006 9:48 AM

Re: Life and Reason
Maybe I'm not explaining myself very clearly. I'm not saying that our experience of things is truer than a scientific explanation of things generally, when by 'things' we mean the world outside us. I don't hold that we have a special knowledge of the truth about a world that's hidden from science. (So I'd completely reject ikabod's argument in my defence, for example!).
​
I'm specifically arguing about scientific explanation of human nature. In this case, and this case only, our experience IS the reality that science is trying to represent.
All right then. I can agree with that.
​
our daily experience of living is a totally abstract concept that exist only in our mind
​
That seems a very strange thing to say. Personally I would have said there was nothing more concrete than my day-to-day existence. Maybe you can clarify what you mean?
May be it`s concrete to you. But how do you make it concrete to me? YOUR daily experience of living is an abstract concept to me. I can relate to it, of course, since I have my own experiences to go by and I can assume that there is some commonality between them. valid as this assumption may be, it is still an assumption
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5547 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006

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Message 45 of 233 (315531)
05-26-2006 11:13 PM 		Reply to: Message 36 by JavaMan
05-26-2006 11:06 AM

Re: Life and Reason
That seems a very strange thing to say. Personally I would have said there was nothing more concrete than my day-to-day existence. Maybe you can clarify what you mean?
May be it`s concrete to you. But how do you make it concrete to me?
Why do I need to make it concrete to you?
You Don`t
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