Summations Only

dwise1 writes: No, I cannot. Ki is at best an abstract concept.

But you and Panda are discussing whether ki is something real. Abstract concepts are not real but are merely constructs of the mind with no more reality than dragons and unicorns. Believing that a thing called ki helps one in martial arts is no different than believing that a thing called God helps one in life.

--Percy

No. For one thing, it cannot be a discussion when all Panda does is to mock and insult. For another, what I have been maintaining is that the techniques taught in Aikido are very real and do indeed work, whereas Panda insists that they are phony and the product of deliberate fraud.

Though you do bring up an interesting question. Both Ki and God can be used by people to explain things that they cannot explain and to provide a paradigm to accomplish things. One difference is that Ki is considered to be a natural part of us and available for our use, whereas God is an external power that acts independently of us and may or may not side with us. Another difference is that Ki techniques still work whether Ki actually exists or not; it really doesn't matter that much to a Ki practitioner. But the question of whether God actually exists is of paramount importance to a God practitioner.

-

The term 'quivering' was substituted with a better translation: a vivifying quickening, a shaking agitation in a rapid fire velocity, which is an expression of life energy flowing through the nervous system when one trembles of rage or when a trembling of desire shakes one's body.

-

Rage and desire are not to be forced. No person forces it down nor forces it to rise. That is why the result is what matters more: First the precise Definitions and then the Results.

In regards to the experiment to verify and ascertain if the life energy can be extended endlessly, the result will indicate whether the life force that flows in the Human body was initiated from a source of life energy or not. Whenever the result will be SEEING IF someone who was born 70 years ago still looks like (s)he is 25 years old or not.

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : 7xs

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

The term 'quivering' was substituted with a better translation: a vivifying quickening, a shaking agitation in a rapid fire velocity, which is an expression of life energy flowing through the nervous system when one trembles of rage or when a trembling of desire shakes one's body.

How did you determine that "life energy" is causing this?

CD7, haloperidol works well for my son, despite the side effects. Ask your physician about it, or about alternatives.

I'm serious.

-

By relativity of simultaneity, that's what Einstein and other physicians have been trying to tell you:

There is another sequence of time which is time in simultaneous sequence;

There is a time other than the continuous sequence of a second after another.

And that's is what the echo of a distant time have been telling you about the place where time in simultaneous sequence does operate:

[ You have a sampling ] That place and kingdom [ whose time is in simultaneous sequence ] is inside of you; in your brain; otherwise the energy that results in thoughts and knowledge would not be occurring in simultaneous sequence as in a fading effect

-

But if one still holds to the belief that the precise time of impact of an explosion is a continuous sequence [ 1, 2, 3, 1/2 ..... ], that is where 'believing' won't do you no good.

-

There is another sequence of time which is time in simultaneous sequence;

However, this doesn't apply to the nervous system or explosions. Nerve impulses in myelinated axons travel at a fairly slow rate (around 30 m/s if memory serves). Explosions occur over a span of time.

[ You have a sampling ] That place and kingdom [ whose time is in simultaneous sequence ] is inside of you; in your brain;

Evidence please.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

CrazyDiamond7 writes: ...which is an expression of life energy flowing through the nervous system...

How does one detect and measure "life energy flowing through the nervous system" as opposed to normal nerve impluses?

--Percy

dwise1 writes: Though you do bring up an interesting question. Both Ki and God can be used by people to explain things that they cannot explain and to provide a paradigm to accomplish things. One difference is that Ki is considered to be a natural part of us and available for our use, whereas God is an external power that acts independently of us and may or may not side with us. Another difference is that Ki techniques still work whether Ki actually exists or not; it really doesn't matter that much to a Ki practitioner. But the question of whether God actually exists is of paramount importance to a God practitioner.

I don't think the details of what people imagine are important, except perhaps to their psychiatrists. It's what can be measured that counts.

--Percy

Edited

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

-

If the following is in layman's terms I will work on making it easier to understand,

-

Samples of questions often asked: How does one verify that the trembling from a quickening or trepidation is a physical expression of life energy? How does one determine that 'life energy' is causing this?

-

By the distinction between continuous energy and life energy, one might ascertain and verify that the sequence of time of a trembling, from a quickening or trepidation, is a time of impact generated by the life energy:

-

Continuous energy has no life in itself. The continuous energy is every energy or nerve impulse that, being physically expressed by muscle contractions, does not generate nor cause, all by itself, a duration [ or permanence ] of that same physical motion.

In the Human body the continuous energy is a chemical energy; It does not have life in itself because it’s a kind of energy that requires a continuous consumption of oxygen and chemical reactions taking place a second after another.

Whenever the energy of a nerve impulse does not generate nor cause, all by itself, a duration [ or permanence ] of that same physical motion, that fact alone is evidence that the energy is a continuous one and does not have life in itself; it’s solely chemical; it’s an emergent property of the body itself .

-

Life energy has life in itself. In nervous system, the life energy is an electrical energy of living nature because each motion interval from a trembling or trepidation is not caused by chemical reactions; Life energy has life in itself because the sequence of time of a trembling, from a quickening or trepidation, is a physical motion that generates, all by itself, a duration [ or permanence ] of that same motion.

When the physical motion of a trembling, from a quickening or trepidation, endures and increases without requiring a chemical reaction taking place every time that quickening occurs, that's evidence that the sequence of time of life energy is not a continuous sequence but an immediate one.

-

The sequence of time of the life energy

As a second after another, every continuous sequence does terminate. That’s the nature of every continuous energy: a permanent end that is being abbreviated in the measure that the heart will continue to beat;

But the access to life energy is the shortest distance between two points. And that shortest distance is simultaneity

-

quote:

---

Can you describe the procedure for observing 'quickening'

---

-

The appropriate means by which life energy can be observed is the quickening and trepidation which occurs by pressing the palms of both hands together. The procedure begins by keeping the palms of both hands together up high, pressed to each other, for approximately 17 minutes. The quickening will occur spontaneously.

And the sequence of that quickening is 'time of impact by the shortening between the right and left side of one's brain'. That is, a Time of impact for mediation between a trepidation and the shortening of that same electrical energy. The electrical life energy from two poles becomes gathered simultaneously; that is the simultaneity of life energy; the shortest distance between two points.

-

By the sequence of time of life energy a new life is generated

-

That the transference of a life energy occurs during the physical motion [ through which a new life is generated ] is evident since the continuous sequence of that motion is never enough to physically express the intensity of the energy that quickens that same motion. And everyone knows that the part that quickens can not be retained by a continuous motion. For the continuous sequence is not enough since it is not the appropriate time of the life energy. And that's why the desire and pleasure is retained by a sequence of trepidation and quickening because that's the sequence of time of the life energy; an immediate and simultaneous sequence.

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : 7xs

Life energy has life in itself. In nervous system, the life energy is an electrical energy of living nature because each motion interval from a trembling or trepidation is not caused by chemical reactions;

Perhaps you should read up on nerve impulses:

http://www.biologymad.com/nervoussystem/nerveimpulses.htm

And muscle contractions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction

And how nerve impulses cross synapses:

http://www.biologymad.com/nervoussystem/synapses.htm

With reference to these pages, please tell us what a trembling from a quickening is, and precisely which steps are life energy instead of chemical energy.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

CrazyDiamond7 writes: The appropriate means by which life energy can be observed is the quickening and trepidation which occurs by pressing the palms of both hands together. The procedure begins by keeping the palms of both hands together up high, pressed to each other, for approximately 17 minutes. The quickening will occur spontaneously.

I'm pretty sure the only effects of pressing my hands together over my head for 17 minutes will be muscle fatigue and impaired circulation. What else is there that should happen that represents observational evidence of "quickening"?

--Percy

crazydiamond7 writes: Life energy and existence never had a beginning;

Are you suggesting that life began with God, and that given that God had no beginning, neither did life? I shall only bring up two sub topics for consideration:
1) Cause and Effect.
2) Source and Content.(One of jars favorites)

I have many questions but as of yet no hypothetical or believable answers. Stay tuned>

By the way, Dwise1 has a Excellent Post in message 4. (its hard to know whether one is on topic or off topic when answering Crazy Diamond 7 ) It could very well be that the source of life is eternal, whereas the content of life is very much under our control and responsibility.

Crazy Diamond 7, bringing up a quote writes: 'there is only one constant; the only real force: Causality; Action, reaction; cause and effect…. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power and those without…. Causality. There is no escape from it. We are forever slaves to it.'

Which I would add as a sub question to the idea of cause and effect. If the cause of humanity (logical, rational, reasonable) beings was from an eternal Source, would that still not lead to a discussion of the content, or effect of humanity currently and potentially eternally? In other words, yes the energy is perhaps causal and yes, we are slaves to "it" or Him or Her.

dwise, responding to Crazy Diamond7 writes: Life Force does exist. Many of us, including Steven Segal (who is the first foreigner to operate an Aikido dojo in Japan), are intimately familiar with that. What you are talking about is completely different.

Hence one reason I am in question mode rather than answer mode.

dwise1 writes: As for my overall philosophy ... . I do not rule out the supernatural arbitrarily. I do rule out our ability to deal with the supernatural. So the supernatural could exist, but we cannot really say anything definitive about the supernatural. Even if some supernatural entity were to exist, I do not allow that any of our fallible human ramblings could truly describe such a supernatural entity's desires and intentions.

For many, GOD is unknowable. Some claim that He is knowable, but fail at any proof beyond Biblical Truth. (which is a belief rather than a proof.) Thus, even if we believe in a source, we are still at odds with the content. One might say that we need to believe in ourselves, as a continuation of that source.

WoundedKing writes: I don't know if you have just chosen to make up totally new terms for things that actually do exist or are just making things up off the top of your head. Either way, what you are writing is nonsense scientifically.

One of the hallmarks of Creationism versus Evolution is belief versus knowledge. Science is always about verifiable hypothetical and testable proposals. Belief is usually about a desired outcome (or content) which is then pushed onto the rest of the humans.

WoundedKing writes: There is energy in living things and it is in 2 forms, chemical and electrical energy.

Now we know! And we can't very well ignore reality as we test it, can we?

CD7 writes: The point being defined is not how nerve impulses are caused. Nerve impulse is just a consequence of the presence of life. In other words, life energy is more than the natural property of being alive.

Aside from the question of the origin of life, this route takes us quite naturally back to the question of the origin of the universe itself. Are we looking for answers or are we looking for more questions?

CD7 writes: The fruits of a tree were made to be an extension of what is living. However, if you eat any variety of grain or the seed of any fruit then you will be destroying that seed rather than eating solely what is living.

My question is this: If there are some things we should do, who is the source telling us such wisdom? Furthermore, if we humans are extensions(through eternal life energy) of this source, what makes us think that we all don't have innate wisdom to eat the right things?

various members challenging CD7 writes: Actually, it appears that a Panda does not like jibberish and woo. Stringing words together is not communication.

I would argue that the point of this topic is one of the following:
1) Asserting an answer, secure in the fact that one has it.

or

2) Asking more questions and stimulating dialogue towards forming a communal abstract concerning the source of knowledge and wisdom ...asking, perhaps, if the source is eternal, whether it is apart from humanity or in eternal communion with humanity, and the overall point of the abstraction. I speak English well, but can jabberwock with the best of them!

Edited by Phat, :

Another valuable resource on this general subject is from Big Joe Turner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeiMByJ-Cec