Seeing the forest among the trees: evolved entities invisible to human eyes

Larni, we both know that is possible, and if you honestly believe you are adding something new to the table, you are thinking like a moron. Notice the simile, and I am not insulting you, but based on your question, it is obvious that you somehow feel my question posed is so shallow that I don't even consider the fact that its proposal doesn't warrant a definite. However, the probability, especially when you look at all the "lower lifeforms" on earth, whose sentience is so small, is that humans are simply drops in a river and there are indeed larger entities.Have you ever considered that planet earth is an organ to some much more highly functioning entity? We are cells among it? Perhaps the earth being the nucleus, and then the sun another nucleus, and everything is always part of something greater.What makes you think that what we consider to be life and understanding is somehow supreme? A cell in all its glory, regardless of what it might think, is always going to be limited in its knowledge and understanding of things. It will not be able to prop up a microscope and stare at the sun and recognize it as a blazing ball of fire, no, that is just too vast for it. It probably won't even imagine there is more than what it knows, either...though, it might.I think the same goes for people. We experience all these limiting factors, and we walk among many humans, many lifeforms, etc. day in and day out, and yet so many people refuse to believe that even as cells form organs and other entities that make up a single entity (a body), perhaps bodies are another step in what is a larger body.Don't you think that there is a mind of humanity? We are humanity's eyes, arms, hands, and ears. When we exercise ourself, we exercise the entire body, and we open up circulation to allow the body to grow and be healthy. I admit it's an absolute tragedy that we must deal with other parts of the body that are stubborn and seek to be lazy...but, we can only do so much, even as every cell in our body can do so much.But, even so, as we make ourselves healthy, we help other people, because we are one body. Enlightenment is when we exercise ourselves in such a balanced and continuous/enduring manner that we actually open the mind of humanity (which we can experience within ourselves) and grow, just like a child learns and becomes an adult...just like we learn everyday. We are a conglomeration of conscious cells functioning as a single entity, but without any cells, there is no body, there is no consciousness from the human being.So, while many people think, "Oh, my cells don't make me me," this is just not true. You deplete the cells, and a person enters into unconsciousness (whether or not the soul does, this is a different case). So, even as humanity functions, every person in the body, every cell, can indeed raise their consciousness up to work and function as one.If you are wondering, the truth is that I myself experience this, and if you are envious or jealous, well you're just going to have to get over it, because I'm not doing just for myself, I am doing it for everyone, and it is not personally, self-glorified, no, I do not live a luxarious, off-limit life. I live a life that everyone can live, and I know other more awakened people, whom I work with either mentally or physically in person, are not doing something whereby they are forbidding others of awakening to the level of the head of the body (which is humanity), but that we all may achieve the state of awareness.Now, I am not saying the functioning at this higher level whereby we work as humanity in a great, singular entity is the limit. No, we can move past this and then as humanity (I do not see humanity as plural, but as a system of bodies which make up one mind) grows up and thinks more clearly as the one system of mind, it is a matter of moving on past a special boundary and learning that even every creature, every atom, etc. works together to form a singular mind.I am not also saying that the mind of humanity shrinks back down to a local level whereby a single person runs this mind. No, it is a psychic mind. As people psychically work together in a PURE manner, a loving manner, these psychic entities are now thoughts in the one mind, much like our minds are conglomeration of thoughts. Our minds function on a level of thoughts, we even converse with ourselves in our head, and we try to resolve matters into a calm state of oneness.Even so, we can work togeth wtih people as singular thoughts interacting with each other in order to bring peace to the race (a peaceful state of mind of humanity). Yes, this is a very awakened state, and it requires diligence and faith. If you don't believe this is possible, chances are you will ridicule those who do, feel jealous and envious, and choose to feel guilty and ashamed for yourself. I am not asking you to feel guilty and ashamed, but simply inviting you because as you join together with this one mind, which is the Christ (no, not the sense that many churches teach, but the singular, psychic Spirit mind which can also be called the Buddha mind or something else, it is nondenominational and impartial to persons), we all become empowered and you become one of us and us one of you.I am not telling you to feel ashamed for how long you have been or have not been awakened and compare to other people. No, that is an illusion. The reality is though that all entities do function as cells and eventually the mind of the child must wake up, be born, and begin living its life, and I for one know this is true and possible, I am ushering it myself and am experiecing it myself as well. But, keep in mind that this mind does not grow and become greater, more aware by having people neglect it. If that were the case, the mind would no longer be growing, so it's not a matter of who achieves enlightenment and when, before who, or after who, or even with who, but that everything joins together so that we can all be more together.And that is what I am teaching and seeing, this is what I know, but, I am aware that for many people (especially if their parents or family life in this present life of theirs has been very negative and continues to be so) this seems like a fantasy. In fact, it seemed like a fantasy for me to, but I now find many more laws and truths going on here than science admits, but again, I cannot simply prove these things to unbelieving people...no, nothing can be "proven" if the one being proven to doesn't accept it.It's like if you want to teach someone about science, it is also possible for a person to idiotically deny accepting laws of physics as ever even having had existed. They separate their selves as being foreign thinkers, and so they will experience a sense of loneliness. I am not asking anyone to experience loneliness, but just try to imagine when all the cells, although they were working together during fetal stages, began working together and becoming a single functioning, conscious human being.Humanity is still yet young, but it's actually time that it grows up and every cell in its body works together and functions together as one mind.

Thanks for the reply, it obviously to no small amount of time and effort."....is obvious that you somehow feel my question posed is so shallow that I don't even consider the fact that its proposal doesn't warrant a definite."Quite so, it seems to be an assertion."However, the probability, especially when you look at all the "lower lifeforms" on earth, whose sentience is so small, is that humans are simply drops in a river and there are indeed larger entities."I see the problem here, in this forum I can't say 'Show me the evidence'. I happen not to believe this assertion."Have you ever considered that planet earth is an organ to some much more highly functioning entity? "Yes I have, after reading 'Foundation and Gaia' by Isaac Asimov. It is exactly as you have worded it. Cracking read too. I also believe that if space travel progresses to a point where we colonise other worlds our 'Earth Ecosystem' will be in conflict with it's. You could treat the 'Earth Ecosystem' as a single entity from one perspective."What makes you think that what we consider to be life and understanding is somehow supreme? "Look at the what we (hunanity) to to each other and world around us. In this region of space up to the time of writing we are in charge. The only laws we have are the physical laws and those of our own making."...and yet so many people refuse to believe that even as cells form organs and other entities that make up a single entity (a body), perhaps bodies are another step in what is a larger body."These two statement do not logically follow. It reads like an IF/THEN statement. As you say "perhaps". I have no problem imagining humanity as acting like a single organism (such as a colonial organism). This does not make it so. 'Smith' form The 'Matrix' called humanity a virus; from a certain point of view this could appear to be true. It does not make it so."Don't you think that there is a mind of humanity?"I actually do, however to argue that a group consciousness is an emergent property of people generally acting in a predictable way (at a statistical level) is reaching."But, even so, as we make ourselves healthy, we help other people, because we are one body."I agree; it's nice to be nice."So, while many people think, "Oh, my cells don't make me me," this is just not true. You deplete the cells, and a person enters into unconsciousness (whether or not the soul does, this is a different case)."I agree with the former statement but the latter is a gross over simplification of psychobiology. I am not sure what you mean."If you are wondering, the truth is that I myself experience this, and if you are envious or jealous, well you're just going to have to get over it, because I'm not doing just for myself, I am doing it for everyone, and it is not personally, self-glorified, no, I do not live a luxarious, off-limit life. I live a life that everyone can live, and I know other more awakened people, whom I work with either mentally or physically in person, are not doing something whereby they are forbidding others of awakening to the level of the head of the body (which is humanity), but that we all may achieve the state of awareness."How does this advance you point?"Now, I am not saying the functioning at this higher level whereby we work as humanity in a great, singular entity is the limit. No, we can move past this and then as humanity (I do not see humanity as plural, but as a system of bodies which make up one mind) grows up and thinks more clearly as the one system of mind, it is a matter of moving on past a special boundary and learning that even every creature, every atom, etc. works together to form a singular mind."In terms of mutual co operation I agree with you but I'm losing the 'Angel Angle'; have you given up on that assertion?"Yes, this is a very awakened state, and it requires diligence and faith."Or, a state of co operation. Our cognitive apperatus is geared towards fostering co operation and resolving our differences with out violence. However it is an evolving and dynamic system based with obervable reality, that is to say we have evolved to cope with the world as is. To forge the kind of interactions you put forwards would require a very different environment for us to develope in. I'm not saying that at some point in the future we could not engineer changes in our psychology (see the 'Conjoiner' faction in a book called Redemption Ark by Alistair Reynolds) and connectivity to form a group mind. But this would be unlikely to develope given the boundary conditions of the observable univers."....but simply inviting you because as you join together with this one mind, which is the Christ (no, not the sense that many churches teach, but the singular, psychic Spirit mind which can also be called the Buddha mind or something else,...."Why invoke this entity when it could be done with out the activity from beyond the observable universe?"...I am ushering it myself and am experiecing it myself as well."This is what we all do. We interpret this evolution of perception based on our cultural and personal perseptions."just try to imagine when all the cells, although they were working together during fetal stages, began working together and becoming a single functioning, conscious human being."This is a truly amazing sequence of bilogical growth. I agree. But we know how the cells form and why they fit together the way thay do."Humanity is still yet young, but it's actually time that it grows up and every cell in its body works together and functions together as one mind."A very good aim. One in which we will either achieve and live in a pretty sweet place, we wipe ourselves out or, (more likely) we rub along as we are doing now, some of us are nice and some of us are nasty. Any other state (not that of dynamism -good or bad) would lead to stagnation and vulnerablity to extinction events.What leds you to perceive your OP posibly true?My last question is: Did you shelve the Angel Angle?

First of all, thanks for your time and reply, your reply has been mature and not shallow, and I appreciate your open-mindedness and realization that the "you have no evidence" truly isn't an argument if the evidence you seek is something like a new element with 500 protons. It's just not that simple, it's not an exact science, like psychology isn't, but it is possible to utilize it.

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Look at the what we (hunanity) to to each other and world around us. In this region of space up to the time of writing we are in charge. The only laws we have are the physical laws and those of our own making.

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I agree we have much power, but to over-glorify and give meaningless meaning (oxy-moron?) to our lives and accomplishments, especially our material accomplishments, is no excuse nor is it a basis, standard, or impressive feat.The reality is that if I only thought my life's experiences mattered, I'd be a jerk to be around. I wouldn't care about other people. So, it is also not fair for humanity to think it's accomplishments and experiences are all that matter. A society of ants is spectacular, yes, but in all their self-glorification and ideas of being supreme and amazing, by overvaluing their achievements and capabilities, they would ignore humanity and miss out on opportunities to grow, opportunities to let go of fears and try new things, and evolve. We already know humanity can do more physically than an ant, but an ant is so limited it doesn't even know we are a civilization, nor does it know our achievements and great sentience.So, overvaluing one's accomplishments is a very double-edged sword, a sharp one and a heavy one in feeble arms raised above one's head. You will need help to overcome it. If a community of blind people existed, would we be able to describe to them our seeing world? Would they care? Would they believe it? No, the reality is that you just cannot continue worshiping yourself and expect to see beyond yourself.Only when you are willing to accept that there are great worlds and things beyond your immediate condition, even if it is a collective humanity on a tiny planet in a vast universe, you are going to miss out on the greater world around you because you jsut aren't giving enough study to it. How long did people think the earth was flat? And just because we discover it is round, this doesn't mean there are not other places to look (psychically?).

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Why invoke this entity when it could be done with out the activity from beyond the observable universe?

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I am not saying invoke Jesus Christ, but I am describing the Christ as rather a collective, all consciousness. Jesus happens to be one who was aware of this more, and taught it in a certain way. So, I am not asserting you call on Jesus necessarily, but I use the term Christ because it's a more widley accepted term, and it also helps me in awakening those sleeping cultics...though I don't want to call them "cultics" for definite here, but rather temporarily as I believe it's a condition and not a truth.

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This is a truly amazing sequence of bilogical growth. I agree. But we know how the cells form and why they fit together the way thay do.

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For certian species, yes, but we are in no position to truly look upon humanity and study it under a microscope, so we could be a grouping body, but our awareness, perception, and expectation leave us in darkness and limitation, and truly suffering (miserable, unhappy, etc. by projecting an unrealistic and impossible image/standard).As for angels, angels are so complex it's pointless to try to perceive them. Even as a hatching chick, and a fetus in a womb may make speculations of its environment and condition, of the world around it, it is truly so limited that it's birth and hatching is such a surprise, such a stepping into the light (literally, as well), that I think birth is a surprise. So, it's not for us to try to understand an angel while still in the womb...why would a baby make assumptions about its parents and their outer appearance without experiencing them physically? So, we cann't use our limitation and assume we can transcend the limitation with no boundaries and resistance.It might be nice to think we can speculate and imagine all the realities of the universe, see the forces that uphold the laws of the universe, etc., but it doesn't make it realistic nor wise.

What would you say if somebody suggested that you were an incredibly stupid and increcibly badly-educated person? That IS what you are. Shame on you, because you have had every single opportunity to develop a basic, animal-like intelligence.MickThis message has been edited by mick, 01-23-2006 09:43 PM

No need to call someone stupid. Don't do that.

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Mick, maybe our friend is just more Biblically apprised than you. According to the Biblical record, this concept is exactly what angels, invisible to the natural eye do on occasion and have done for milleniums, for those of us who have experienced the supernatural presence whether in spirit or indeed.

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Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

"...for those of us who have experienced the supernatural presence whether in spirit or indeed."To be fair, this is your interpretation of the experience(s) you have had. If you had had a different cultural up bringing you may have assigned a different explanation for said experiences.I myself have had several "epiphany's" and moments of "clarirty" or "oneness with the universe". Thats how our brains sometimes work. You can even recreate these experiences with EM fields applied to our brain.If you had never heard of a "god" or had experience with organised religion you would not entertain such notions. There are no letters of fire in the sky.

Thanks, I like to think I'm not shallow and although I'm not always mature, I try ."I agree we have much power, but to over-glorify and give meaningless meaning (oxy-moron?) to our lives and accomplishments, especially our material accomplishments, is no excuse nor is it a basis, standard, or impressive feat."I have to disagree on one level: If we can talk like this in an open exchange of ideas (even though it is obviouse we come from two differing world views) and perhaps learn a little more about other people (thus increasing connectivity in a small way) then I feel thats a thing to be proud of. But for us to do this we need the wonders of humanity's manipulation of energy, matter, information and local entropy. This IS impressive and to deny that is to ignore it. However, to use said acheivement as validation of our right to use the world as we see fit (as a certain moronic head of state and his conservative advisors would have it) is of course arrogant in the extreme."The reality is that if I only thought my life's experiences mattered, I'd be a jerk to be around."You sell yourself short. I believe that only this life matters and that there will be no appraisal other than that of the actors within the observable universe; but I am still a moral person. In fact I would go as far to say that I am a very moral person because dispite the fact that I have a general disregard for most people (not dislike, I'm just not interested in people I don't know), my job is to give people lifestyle advice to improve the quality of there life. I don't feel that this earns me points for the next life: there is no existential reward.You make several comparisms between the status and perceptions and the perceptions of ants. As far as I am aware, ants are not conscious. We are (I hope we can agree the dispute of this point would slow down this discussion). For there to be some greater level of awareness greater than consciousnes at the sme increase in magnitude than that of an ant to a person is a bit of a stretch. How much more self aware can a being be? If you argue that we are unaware of aspects of reality that are in fact real then I can't disagree with you. We lack several senses that are found in nature: electrosense of sharks, heat pits in certain vipers to name but the two I can easily remember. I don't doubt that there are things that we don't percieve in the universse, but to imagine that it is more than exotic energy (neutrinos etc) seems to be speculation."Jesus happens to be one who was aware of this more, and taught it in a certain way..."This is an act of faith. I can't argue with that in this forum so I will be honest with you and say I don't think I can debate this point. I would be invoking evidence and you would invoke faith."For certian species, yes, but we are in no position to truly look upon humanity and study it under a microscope, so we could be a grouping body, but our awareness, perception, and expectation leave us in darkness and limitation, and truly suffering (miserable, unhappy, etc. by projecting an unrealistic and impossible image/standard)."Not so, this is Psychology, Sociology, Politics, History, Econonmics Biology etc... These are our way of trying to understand our place with each other and the universe. Before we had science, we did not have that method of investigation. It may be that in the future we my improve on the methods of science, but that will be us doing it. There may be Angels out there, but they are in our future and they are us."It might be nice to think we can speculate and imagine all the realities of the universe, see the forces that uphold the laws of the universe, etc., but it doesn't make it realistic nor wise."This confuses me, this is opposed to the OP. If we cannot conceive the true nature of reality, then it is in effect at the other side of an event horizon and not with the obsevable universe. That includes Angels and the like.I think we see the same thing, I just assume that we will become like unto Angels in some unimaginable future or we won't. If I read you right, you say they are already here and they are not us.Or, we see a similar posiblity through a different cultural lense.Who said these forums end in stalemate?

"According to the Biblical record,...."I don't think you can use the Bible as a stand alone record. You have to have faith to accept it as such. But lets not talk evidence in this forum.Sorry for my brief trip to pedants corner You are saying that these ideas of Angels are very old: this is not an implication of validity.