An Atheist By Any Other Name . . .

I very well could be off the mark with your intent, so bear with me. My take on the need for atheist groups, at least from the outset, is mainly for atheists just coming out. I have heard from a number of them that it is quite the lonely feeling, especially when everyone around you: family, friends, co-workers, neighbors etc., are religious. It is important for them to know that they are not alone. What theists seem to be doing to atheist groups is simply done to diminish the notion, IMO. Human beings are social creatures and there is absolutely nothing wrong with forming groups with others that have at least one idea in common with you, especially for those whom religion was such a huge part of their life which is now gone.

This thread isn't very far along, I suggest you read through it and see what definitions of atheist have been provided. Neither of the ones you just provided fit. Sure, some strong atheists make the active claim that there is no god, but that is not the belief that is required for one to be an atheist.You and I are both atheists towards the multitude of gods that have been presented throughout history (Ra, Zeus, Odin, etc.), I just take it one god further.

Thanks Phat, I needed a laugh. You consider yourself rational, logical and reasonable......yet you believe, without any real evidence, that there is an invisible man in the sky who gives a shit about YOU and has a place for your "soul" when you die? You could at least be honest and admit that you compartmentalize your rationality, logic and reason.

Why? Of what use are beliefs if they do not align with evidence, data or fact? Moreover, of what use are beliefs in general? It is you, the believer, the theist, who puts stock in belief, not the atheist.

First, it seems as though we should come to an agreement about the definition of belief we are going to use, as it appears that we are saying two different things when we say belief confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.That is the definition I use. So yes, beliefs are unimportant in the grand scheme of things, IMO and speaking as an atheist. Evidence, data and facts are true regardless whether one believes them or not, so no, atheists don't have beliefs (in the sense that I am using the term) in them. I prefer to say one has come to a conclusion, not to a belief. There is nothing comforting at all about the universe, just what you make of it. The universe is a cold, fickle, cruel bitch. Says you. I say it is the believer who is copping out, what with his belief in unevidenced things just to make his or herself feel a bit better. I'm not sure what you mean....

As the others have said, agnosticism and atheism dela with two different ideas. Atheism and theism deal with what one believes (or doesn't believe), while agnosticism and gnosticism deal with knowledge. This gives us 4 possibilities:

You've had how many people explain this to you...and you still don't get it? There is a difference between "I don't believe X" and "I believe X to be false". What bit of it don't you get? I'm afraid there aren't many more ways we can say this to you.

It seems as though you are conflating tentativity with reluctance. I am not at all reluctant to say "I do not believe any of the propositions for a supernatural being that have been brought forth as of yet in human history, but I remain open to the idea of one if provided with sufficient evidence.". There lacks even sufficient evidence as of yet for it to affect my daily thought process (except when discussing such things), especially since there is a natural explanation for most everything, or if no natural explanation has been found, science has proven a useful tool so far to excel at finding the answer and has done so since it's inception. Science has filled the god gap time and time again.The difference, I think, between the atheist and theist, is that the atheist is absolutely willing to be proven wrong while the theist is certain he already has the answer and only seeks to prove himself right.