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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1998
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 46 of 115 (658176)
04-03-2012 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-02-2012 11:04 AM


Re: I Believe In Constructive Conversations
Now you're telling untruths about the fact that you did not tell the truth. Here, I'll refresh your memory:
MrIBELIEVEinGOD writes:

Atheist's dont show uncondentional love...

It is untrue.

Tell, me, don't Christians believe in some very, very, warm place where people who tell untruths go to for eternity? If it exists, it seems as if you are on your way there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-02-2012 11:04 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

    
Heathen
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 47 of 115 (658178)
04-03-2012 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-02-2012 11:25 AM


Re: I Believe In Constructive Conversations
Ok. That's all very interesting, But you said that you have seen god.

What does it look like?
how big is it?
what colour is it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-02-2012 11:25 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

  
MrIBELIEVEinGOD
Junior Member (Idle past 2446 days)
Posts: 16
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Joined: 04-01-2012


(2)
Message 48 of 115 (658180)
04-03-2012 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by subbie
04-03-2012 12:31 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
You need to repent of your sins, take up your cross, and follow Christ. God is the Creator and you should humble yourself before before the Lord and he will lift you up in honor. the creator created you out of dust.. without him you would have remained as dust. in all you are worthless and your existence is all thanks to God in giving you life, not your mother. are you too proud to kneel and give thanks to the Lord Almighty who is the Creator of all life? Jesus didnt just show us THE WAY, but Jesus is THE WAY. Jesus didnt just tell us THE TRUTH, Jesus is THE TRUTH. Jesus Christ is God, God gave us Life, and God is THE LIFE. If you do not have the spirit of God in you, you do not have LIFE. I am talking about TRUE LIFE.

Edited by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, : fixing error


PM me your prayer requests

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 50 by Theodoric, posted 04-03-2012 7:59 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded
 Message 51 by hooah212002, posted 04-03-2012 8:13 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded
 Message 52 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 9:12 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded
 Message 53 by purpledawn, posted 04-03-2012 9:33 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded
 Message 54 by Straggler, posted 04-03-2012 9:35 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded
 Message 56 by Perdition, posted 04-03-2012 11:17 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded
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Heathen
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 49 of 115 (658181)
04-03-2012 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
I am talking about TRUE LIFE

what is True Life?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 50 of 115 (658186)
04-03-2012 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
Could you please present some sort of argument instead of just preaching. Preaching is for church this is not a church and no one here wants to follow your mumbo-jumbo.

There have been some very well thought out, well written responses to you and all you do is reply with more preaching.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 51 of 115 (658187)
04-03-2012 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
Prove this jesus or god character exists outside of your imagination.

in all you are worthless and your existence is all thanks to God in giving you life

And christians say atheists have a dreary existence. I pity you christians, I really do. I pity that you feel so miserable about yourselves. You strive for humility, but what you have is self loathing. It's a shame and a waste of a lifetime.

So I ask again: can you provide ANY evidence this jesus or god character exists outside of your own imagination? Your message seems to contain that of instructing other people the "trvth" of these characters and how much they need these characters, so surely you have some evidence of their factual existence.


"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by 1.61803, posted 04-03-2012 11:01 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2012 7:28 AM hooah212002 has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 52 of 115 (658188)
04-03-2012 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
Actually, you are miss-quoting Jesus, but so has almost every translator of the Bible (a book it seems you haven't read yet by the way).

Jesus was talking about really important stuff, more important than any eternal life stuff, about sports.

What Jesus actually said was "Take up lacrosse and follow me".


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1530 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 53 of 115 (658189)
04-03-2012 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Why Must Humans Kneel?
quote:
You need to repent of your sins, take up your cross, and follow Christ.
Repenting of wrong behavior and taking up right behavior isn't really a new issue. The idea being that doing what's right makes one's life better.

The God of Abraham made a contract with Abraham and his descendants. The agreement is that as long as Abraham and his descendants followed the terms of the contract they would prosper in all they do. Break the contract and things would not go well. (Deuteronomy 29 & 30)

Jesus was not the God of Abraham (depending on which gospel one reads). He was a messenger trying to bring the "lost" Jews into alignment with the contract. Jesus didn't teach anything new. IMO, he was trying to get back to basics. Cut through the fence around the Torah.

Since God created all living things, why expect humans to kneel and give thanks?
Why the need for extra rules for humans, but not for any other creature?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 54 of 115 (658190)
04-03-2012 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
MIBIG writes:

You need to repent of your sins, take up your cross, and follow Christ.

Or pick up my Koran and follow Mohammed? Or accept the truths of Scientology? Or Hinduism? Or any one of a multitude of other possibilities all of whom claim to be some form of ultimate truth.

MIBIG writes:

God is the Creator and you should humble yourself before before the Lord and he will lift you up in honor.

So you say. But others say differently. I am equally unconvinced by all of you.

MIBIG writes:

the creator created you out of dust.. without him you would have remained as dust.

Or P'an Ku formed from the giant cosmic egg and then went on to create all of nature that we see today. Is your creation myth really superior?

MIBIG writes:

in all you are worthless and your existence is all thanks to God in giving you life, not your mother.

Some advice on public relations - If you want people to accept your preachings probably best to avoid dissing mothers. We all have them and most of us are quite fond of them.

MIBIG writes:

are you too proud to kneel and give thanks to the Lord Almighty who is the Creator of all life?

I don't think pride is the problem you face in converting us so much as the idea that the things you are telling us probably just aren't true no matter how sincerely you might believe they are.

Your conviction isn't enough to convince most of the rest of us.

MIBIG writes:

Jesus didnt just show us THE WAY, but Jesus is THE WAY.

How do you know? And what about all of the other "ways"? How do you know they are false?

MIBIG writes:

Jesus didnt just tell us THE TRUTH, Jesus is THE TRUTH.

How do you know? And what about all of the other "truths"? How do you know they are false?

MIBIG writes:

Jesus Christ is God, God gave us Life, and God is THE LIFE

THE LIFE? What does that even mean?

MIBIG writes:

If you do not have the spirit of God in you, you do not have LIFE. I am talking about TRUE LIFE.

TRUE LIFE as opposed to....... what?

I am pretty sure I am alive.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2817
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 55 of 115 (658194)
04-03-2012 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by hooah212002
04-03-2012 8:13 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
Reading a little to much Nietzsche Hooah?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by hooah212002, posted 04-03-2012 8:13 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1311 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 56 of 115 (658197)
04-03-2012 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Know The Crowd
Hi MIBiG,

I apologoze if this seems like piling on, but I'm curious as to what your goal here is. If you want to preach to make yourself feel better, then I guess you might be accomplishing your goal, but you have chosen an interesting place to do it, namely a place where others can respond to you and will do so without necessarily agreeing with you.

If your goal is to try and "help" us, because you are truly concerned about our everlasting souls, then you're going about it all wrong. You need to know your audience. This forum is filled with all stripes of people, from theists to deists to atheists to everything in between. "Preaching" is a good way to talk to other theists, sometimes, but you're unlikely to make any difference because you're not saying anything they don't already believe. If you preach to a theist of a different faith, you're likewise going to fail, because s/he can throw quotes and platitudes that support their religion just as easily as you can.

For the atheists, you're supremely out of your depth. We've all heard the preaching, the cajoling, the threatening and the self-loathing before. We find it unconvincing. We find it so for different reasons, but they tend to boil down to:
1) Your preaching sounds very much like the preaching of every other religion, so what makes yours more plausible?

2) We tend to value proof over passion. You can be as heartfelt as you can be, and it will do no where near as much to convince us as holding a fossil in our hands.

So, if you want to convince people who have in almost all cases heard, thought about, and pondered the very things you're saying and found them lacking, you'll have to produce some empirical reason for them to believe you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7672
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 57 of 115 (658204)
04-03-2012 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-02-2012 11:26 PM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
I like your post. it was very touching, but I feel as though unless you repent, take up your cross, and follow Jesus Christ, you will surely suffer not by being condemned eteranlly by God, but by yourself for not giving God the credit his majesty truely deserves.

If I said the same about Zeus, would you feel compelled to worship Zeus? I doubt it. So why do you think this type of preaching will compel us to believe in God?

Borrowing from Stephen Roberts, we only disbelieve in one more god than you do. When you understand why you do not believe in those thousands of other gods you will understand why we do not believe in your god. It is that simple.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-02-2012 11:26 PM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 115 (658211)
04-03-2012 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Taq
04-03-2012 11:32 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
Actually, that statement is a very strong indicator that he has never read the Bible.

If you read the Bible it is filled with stories about folk that don't believe in God or Jesus and in all cases the God or Jesus character does not condemn the individual but rather goes on to provide comfort and additional evidence.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Taq, posted 04-03-2012 11:32 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 59 of 115 (658223)
04-03-2012 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-03-2012 3:27 AM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
I like this guy.

NOTE to new guy: subbie isn't worth your time NEVER respond to that troll.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-03-2012 3:27 AM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1260 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


(1)
Message 60 of 115 (658229)
04-03-2012 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD
04-02-2012 11:26 PM


Re: The value of human life - Atheist version
What does this make me think about atheists? I like your post. it was very touching, but I feel as though unless you repent, take up your cross, and follow Jesus Christ, you will surely suffer not by being condemned eteranlly by God, but by yourself for not giving God the credit his majesty truely deserves. I think atheists that turn others away from God will be worst off than those who keep their anti-God beliefs to themselves.

I'm not overly concerned about my own fate simply because I've found no credible reason to believe that "eternal condemnation" actually happens in reality.

But you've demonstrated part of what I spoke of: you believe that not only is it okay, but it's morally correct for your deity to punish me with eternal burning torture simply for not being convinced that your specific story is true (as opposed to the thousands of other religions with similar, mutually exclusive stories).

Essentially, you've just told me that you think it's good that your deity should commit an act infinitely worse than the Holocaust. I find such a position to be ethically disgusting.

And yet you claim to experience "unconditional love." Penalizing disbelief with eternal torture seems to be a rather large condition on that love. I don;t think that any actually loving individual, deity or otherwise, would ever condemn even one person to the Christian Hell under any circumstance. In fact, were I to become an omnipotent deity tomorrow, my very first act would be to rewrite reality such that no person ever needed to die, that no loved ones ever needed to say goodbye to each other, that no one should suffer the pain of loss or fear the end of their own existence. And I wouldn't place any conditions on it - I wouldn't punish those who don't "give me credit," I wouldn't withhold eternal life from those who found my existence to be incredulous. There would be no Hell.

That would seem to make me, an Atheist, more unconditionally loving than your deity.

"What if someone leads one of these little ones who believe in me to sin? If he does, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck."

So essentially you're telling me that I should just shut up, that I should not share the same freedom to express my beliefs that you do.

I understand that your religion tells you that. I was a Christian once myself, for over 20 years. But please remember: from my perspective, you are trying to lead people astray into worshiping an imaginary character, hoping for rewards and fearing punishments that I don't think exist at all.

Perhaps, as individuals with our own hopes and dreams and likes and dislikes, we can agree that we both have every right to believe according to our own conscience, even if we arrive at different conclusions. Perhaps we can agree that neither of us should be told to keep our beliefs to ourselves.

I feel for you and I will pray for you.

I appreciate the sentiment, I really do, but still I would prefer that you didn't. I find it to be offensive and condescending. A common reply by some more confrontational Atheists would be "And I'll think for you." I imagine you'd find that to be offensive as well, on about the same level that I feel about your offer of prayer.

I choose a Eternity without pain and perishable objects and possesions. I choose a Eternity with Love and Joy with my Creator.

Eternal life without suffering does sound rather nice...but to be even remotely ethical, your deity would need to allow everyone to be granted eternal life free from suffering, without the restriction that they must first believe in him.

I have no problem admitting that I love God more than I love people and my family.

I have an ethical problem with that, of course. I think that all thinking beings carry equal moral weight...which of course is why I don't want to torture the innocent or the guilty.

it was said: "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. Anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And anyone who does not pick up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. If anyone finds his life, he will lose it. If anyone loses his life because of me, he will find it." - Jesus Christ

I'm well aware of what is written in the Bible. Please do remember that the Bible, to me, is really no different from the Koran or the Rig Veda or a collection of Greek myths. You may as well pull a quote from the Lord of the Rings for all the effect it will have on me - you're not preaching to a choir here.

There is a way to convince me that your deity exists, however. All you have to do is provide sufficient evidence for me to find the story convincing.

That said...I'd still refuse to worship any deity that sent anyone at all to eternal suffering regardless of cause. I'd rather be sent to Hell than side with the being who sends people there in the first place.

If you do not love Jesus Christ more than anything else, you will surely lose your life. I'd rather live for Eternity, than a lifetime.

Why should I believe that your beliefs can actually offer real eternal life? How should I differentiate fact from fiction?


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.”
- Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by MrIBELIEVEinGOD, posted 04-02-2012 11:26 PM MrIBELIEVEinGOD has not yet responded

  
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