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Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman

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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
Tangle
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Posts: 8547
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Message 93 of 131 (848840)
02-16-2019 11:28 AM 		Reply to: Message 92 by LamarkNewAge
02-16-2019 11:03 AM

Re: The Legions need to understand the historical methodology (before making claims).
LNA writes:

You don't understand the issue at all (you aren't alone, so don't feel bad).

Perhaps it's you? Long shot I know.

It seems to me that the believers have to establish that this Jesus guy actually existed at all before they attempt the harder job of proving him to be supernatural.

If he can't even pass the human test of existing in fact not just fiction, there's no point progressing further.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

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 Message 92 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-16-2019 11:03 AM LamarkNewAge has taken no action
  
Tangle
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From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 110 of 131 (848867)
02-17-2019 3:22 AM 		Reply to: Message 109 by LamarkNewAge
02-17-2019 12:48 AM

Re: The Legions need to understand the historical methodology (before making claims).
LMA, Why do you think that dumping a pile of copy and paste text on a page is worth doing? I don't read it and I'm pretty sure nobody else does.

Why not make whatever argument you have, simply and short and stick to one point at a time using your own words?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-17-2019 12:48 AM LamarkNewAge has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-17-2019 8:02 PM Tangle has replied
  
Tangle
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Posts: 8547
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 119 of 131 (848893)
02-18-2019 2:52 AM 		Reply to: Message 112 by LamarkNewAge
02-17-2019 8:02 PM

Re: The Legions need to understand the historical methodology (before making claims).
LNA writes:

I doubt most are familiar with the issues involved in dating Clement of Rome (1 Clement) to 90-100.

I would rather give people a chance to see what scholars (in this case, it was Bart Ehrman's Introduction to his translation of the man Catholics call "Pope Clement") look at.

Your problem is that no one cares what you'd rather do so if you keep on doing it regardless of our attempts to keep you to the point, you're not going to be communicating with anyone.

At the moment you're just entertaining yourself.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-17-2019 8:02 PM LamarkNewAge has taken no action
  
Tangle
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Posts: 8547
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 124 of 131 (848915)
02-18-2019 12:58 PM 		Reply to: Message 123 by Phat
02-18-2019 12:54 PM

Re: The Legions need to understand the historical methodology (before making claims).
Odd that you don't think that about Mohammed or Joseph Smith or......
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Phat, posted 02-18-2019 12:54 PM Phat has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 02-18-2019 1:44 PM Tangle has replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8547
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 130 of 131 (848925)
02-18-2019 2:05 PM 		Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
02-18-2019 1:44 PM

Re: Jesus Drove The Franchise War
Phat writes:

I'll saythis much. Neither Muhammed nor (especially) Joseph Smith would have even been widely known had Jesus not started the trend.

I think the Jews would argue that Jesus was a newcomer to the trend. But in any case, the point is that other successful brands are available so your point is rebutted.

The next question is what did jesus originally represent that made Him a popular brand? Hope for oppressed downtrodden people? Liberation from stern secular governments? Liberation from authoritarian religions?

Sure and political opportunism etc.

Or perhaps you guys will argue that He became a myth that supported the creation of a franchise.

He probably WAS a myth that supported the creation of a franchise. And it's probably not a single He.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 02-18-2019 1:44 PM Phat has seen this message
  
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