Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman

I most definitely cannot be "swayed" by just anyone. I *will admit* to an internal bias regarding paying more attention when the subject is about belief *if* it resonates with my own developing belief. I am more inclined to listen to a Pastor (especially one with good credentials) than I am to an atheist or mythicist. I will not try and question, doubt, or attempt to falsify a favorable source as intensely unless I am presented with contrary evidence regarding that source. A perfect example is the disgraced (and deceased) Ravi Zacharias. I would listen to Ravi quite a bit and read a couple of his books, and thought he was allright without really knowing him (I never met him) nor hearing an corroborating commentary from anyone else who knew him...except through the media. To be honest, there was something missing but I coulnt put a finger on it. And why would I attempt to falsify him? He was respected within the Christian community at large.Theo smelt the rat right away, but I didn't trust Theos information since he is a known skeptic and an atheist. Later on, I found evidence from different sources that Ravi was "fake" and willfully deceptive but didn't want to believe it until the story broke and his own organization distanced itself from him. Not only did I have to read the evidence and data, but it took other Christians (believers) to do the same before I changed my opinion about him.The incident never caused me to question my faith, but it did cause me to pay more attention to my susceptibility to gullibility.

Why would I need evidence for Jesus? The very fact that I discussed religion for twenty plus years shows that I have a passion/interest for something! What specifically could that passion be? Surely not simply an oversized ego! Perhaps some questions that we could examine can be discussed.Here is my list.

• What differentiates a cult from established belief?
• Why do humans seek religion and/or why do they seem to need it? (some, anyway)
• Why has Christianity continued to spread and not simply die off?
• Why does Islam grow and continue to spread and not die off? (They would agree that their founder is now dead.)

What would you expect to find under the hood?

That is the topic we are discussing. If you want to discuss unevidenced belief, take it elsewhere. If you want to discuss these issues start a new topic or find a place where they are on topic.
I guess it does not surprise me that after 21 years here and a stint as a moderator, you still have no idea how things work.

Just for example, since there's a broad consensus among Biblical scholars that the baptism and the crucifixion are actual events from Jesus's life, I would expect to find evidence for the baptism and the crucifixion.Mohammad came nearly 600 years after Jesus, and there's no evidence for the historical Mohammad, either. Of course, there's a broad consensus among Quranic scholars that Mohammad was a real person.Joseph Smith is a different matter. No one has any doubt that Joseph Smith was a real person. There's even a birth certificate, a death certificate, and a gravesite: --Percy

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Just for example, since there's a broad consensus among Biblical scholars that the baptism and the crucifixion are actual events from Jesus's life, I would expect to find evidence for the baptism and the crucifixion.

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I’m curious, what evidence would you expect to see and why?Can you provide equivalent evidence for anyone baptised by John?Can you provide equivalent evidence for anyone crucified under Pontius Pilate?

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Mohammad came nearly 600 years after Jesus, and there's no evidence for the historical Mohammad, either.

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Given that Muhammad was rather more successful than Jesus - and had a much longer career - wouldn’t this (if true) imply that it is unsurprising that we have such little evidence of Jesus?

None of these questions are relevant.The only question that matters is where is the evidence that would allow us to accept the proposition that Jesus was real?

Lack of evidence is evidence of nothing. There is no contemporary, historical evidence of the biblical Jesus dude or anyone that resembles him. None. Zero.
Hitchens's Razor.

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None of these questions are relevant.

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So you are saying that Percy is wrong and we shouldn’t expect evidence of either? Because those questions are definitely relevant to Percy’s claim.

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The only question that matters is where is the evidence that would allow us to accept the proposition that Jesus was real?

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In the Gospels, the Pauline Epistles and Josephus.

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Lack of evidence is evidence of nothing.

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Only lack of expected evidence is evidence of absence. So it;s telling that neither of the two replies offers any justification of Percy’s expectation.

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There is no contemporary, historical evidence of the biblical Jesus dude or anyone that resembles him. None. Zero.
Hitchens's Razor.

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Then I guess we can dispose of Jesus Mythicism.

I suggest you ask Percy, but if we shouldn't expect evidence of absence and there's no evidence of presence, what have you got? We don't know who wrote the gospels but we do know that the authors never met Jesus and that most of it is myth.
Paul never met Jesus. He had "visions".
Josephus wasn't born when Jesus was alive, is full of fraudulent additions by Christians and we don't have his original work.Come on, this isn't evidence, this is guesswork and apologetics.

No. It is more evidence for it but not definitive. If anyone presented me with contemporary, historical evidence for the Jesus dude or anyone like him, I would reconsider my position. Not change but reconsider. Please explain your logic.

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I suggest you ask Percy, but if we shouldn't expect evidence of absence and there's no evidence of presence, what have you got?

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As you ought to know, I did.

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We don't know who wrote the gospels but we do know that the authors never met Jesus and that most of it is myth.
Paul never met Jesus. He had "visions".
Josephus wasn't born when Jesus was alive, is full of fraudulent additions by Christians and we don't have his original work.

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That you make poorly informed excuses for dismissing the evidence doesn’t make it go away.

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No. It is more evidence for it but not definitive. If anyone presented me with contemporary, historical evidence for the Jesus dude or anyone like him, I would reconsider my position. Not change but reconsider.

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The fact that you make unreasonable demands for evidence doesn’t make you right.

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Please explain your logic.

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At least here, Jesus Mythicism is asserted without evidence. You can work out the rest.

It's never unreasonable to ask for evidence.If you're saying that the circumstances make it unlikely that there should be evidence, the result is still no evidence, reasonable or unreasonable.When we accept things without evidence we call it a belief.