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Author Topic:   Waiting on the End Times
Phat
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Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 67 (80210)
01-22-2004 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Amlodhi
01-22-2004 8:50 PM


Re: The End has started? Roll the Credits!
First, allow me to be logical. No weapon has ever been produced that is not ultimately used. The world has tens of thousands of nuclear weapons. Humanity cannot agree on cooperation. The West wants to keep their money, industry, freedom, and the right to allow their kids to inherit the same 70% conrol over the resources on the planet. The multinational corporations have no alliegance to any one country, but are generally pro western. The bulk of the earths population is in China and India. So...logically,conflict shall continue.
What about the Bible? Well..IF this book could be assumed to be true and literal, Jesus Himself did not know the time.
Eccl 9:12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:
As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so men are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.
So what does this mean? Quit trippin on the Last Days! Any one of us could die tomorrow! That is our last day! Live for the moment in love and peace> I believe that God is in control of my life, so who cares what happens? I need only to be real and loving with those people whom He has placed around me.
[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-22-2004]

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 67 (80214)
01-22-2004 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Azure Moon
01-22-2004 11:11 PM


Re: The End has started?God gnows.
Here is a definition that I think is fairly descriptive, contrasting our thought processes:
The doctrine of salvation by knowledge. This definition, based on the etymology of the word (gnosis "knowledge", gnostikos, "good at knowing"), is correct as far as it goes, but it gives only one, though perhaps the predominant, characteristic of Gnostic systems of thought. Whereas Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formulae indicative of that knowledge. Gnostics were "people who knew", and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings, whose present and future status was essentially different from that of those who, for whatever reason, did not know. A more complete and historical definition of Gnosticism would be:
A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Saviour.
However unsatisfactory this definition may be, the obscurity, multiplicity, and wild confusion of Gnostic systems will hardly allow of another. Many scholars, moreover, would hold that every attempt to give a generic description of Gnostic sects is labour lost.

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 Message 13 by Azure Moon, posted 01-22-2004 11:11 PM Azure Moon has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 67 (80302)
01-23-2004 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Amlodhi
01-23-2004 12:51 AM


Re: Who Gnows the Truth?
Amlodhi says that, pertaining to gnosticism,
As to more generic gnosticism, it seems to me that the difficulty would lie in the discernment between "knowing" vs. the mere presumption that one "knows".
I would think that a gnostic by definition holds human wisdom as the highest form of truth, whereas an Orthodox Christian holds scripture as the highest form of truth. Historically, many Orthodox Christians act as if they are Gods spokeman on earth.(myself included) This is a human weakness. By definition, we should defer to the Holy Spirit for the final authority. Contrastingly, many scientific truth seekers and gnostics will carefully study and sift through human wisdom and experimentation before proclaiming evidence which supports their original position==which is that Man and human wisdom always occupy the highest position of knowledge. Go figure.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 20 of 67 (80316)
01-23-2004 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Amlodhi
01-23-2004 12:14 PM


Gnock,Gnock. Who'se there? God.
Amlodhi. You said in your last post that:
As described by definition, gnosis is a knowledge of unseen things, religious or spiritual, that can be obtained only by instruction from Gnostic mentors or some form of transcendental revelation.
Based on this definition, even Christians who claim "Holy Spirit" revelations could be said to be employing Gnostic beliefs. I would suppose that for an Orthodox Christian to differentiate from a Gnostic, Scripture had to be Canonized and validated as an inerrent truth. Otherwise, endless knowledge based upon many ancient sources would continually challenge and redefine Orthodox Belief. This is what actually happens. Perhaps to clarify my position, I will state that my belief is that
1)Scripture has been defined and validated. No new revelations can improve it.
2) Original Sin and spiritual warfare are not a fairy tale but a fact. By definition, the devil can and does make Christians look and act as stupid and ignorant as possible. It is not enough for us as Christians to blame such a devil, however. The fault lies with us.
God has already given us a way out, which is to trust His wisdom.
3) The difference between Gnostic wisdom/revelation and Inspired Scripture and Truth is difficult to quantify and define. Perhaps in this case, we can learn from the early church and the arguments with Gnostics back in "the day." As thinkers, I suppose we can continue to articulate ourselves in this debate as well. I believe in an absolute truth apart from human wisdom. I cannot prove it. I can only live it. Even within the Church there are differences of opinion on what is and is not truth.
[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-23-2004]

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 67 of 67 (86236)
02-14-2004 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by NosyNed
02-01-2004 11:56 PM


Logic and End Times radiation==>
When I was a young and naive believer, I read many books written by many Christian authors which attempted to tie specific scriptures in with a literal interpretation of the biblical prediction of the last days. Logically, I had to put the Bible aside since I trusted the words of Jesus who told me, in effect,that my best strategy was to trust Him today and teach others about His love and wisdom yet to know that bad times may come. Logically,looking at the world today, I believe that the likely scenario that we as a people will deal with next will be a stronger version of 9/11. On that fateful day, 5 planes were used as the instrument of destruction. I believe that the next major event triggered by humans against humans will be somewhere on the magnitude of 5 nukes hitting 5 cities in the world at once.
It may be only 1 nuke, but I would think that if any terror/jihad organizations were able to get one, they would wait and get as many as they could before launching this attack since, by definition, absolute military marshall law will occur after this event. My question is this:What will be the social and economic impact of this next inevitable attack?

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