Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 49 (9181 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: joebialek123
Post Volume: Total: 918,287 Year: 5,544/9,624 Month: 569/323 Week: 66/143 Day: 9/19 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 166 of 276 (581101)
09-13-2010 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by riVeRraT
09-13-2010 3:57 PM


right, you don't believe there is a god, that is your belief.
Is not believing in Santa Claus your belief system? Is not believing in Vishnu your belief system?
Or is a belief system based on what you have a positive belief in? When asked for your belief system do you list the thousands of gods you don't believe in, or do you list the one god you do believe in?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2010 3:57 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 178 of 276 (581466)
09-15-2010 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by riVeRraT
09-15-2010 7:43 AM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
However, atheism by definition is not someone who doesn't believe in something. Atheism, in a narrow sense is specifically the position that there are no deities.
I would agree that a majority of atheists are not sitting on the fence as to the existence of a deity. Atheists have been waiting since the dawn of time for theists to present us evidence that their gods exist. None has been presented. So we don't expect that there is a god, and for good reason. However, we don't have an absolute belief that there are no gods. If Zeus appeared in front of me I would certainly be surprised, and I certainly wouldn't be expecting it. However, I would absolutely accept that Zeus exists.
If I took a cube, and pulled a perfect vacuum on it, I could easily prove with 99.99% certainty that there is nothing material inside of it. If you said to me, there was a god inside of it, I would have no way of detecting that god, since we cannot detect things that do not exist in our dimension, or however gods exist, so I would have to take it on faith that there is nothing there, because I believe there is nothing there.
That is not analogous to the atheist position. We say that no one has detected God. Therefore, there is no compelling reason to believe that God does exist. Could there be a God? Sure, but we really don't expect God to exist given the absence of any detectable evidence for the existence of God. This doesn't require faith to state that there is no evidence for the existence of God.
To go back to your cube analogy, it doesn't take faith to claim that there are no known tests that detected anything in the cube, God or otherwise. We would then ask what evidence the theist had for claiming that God is in the cube. After the theist is incapable of coming up with the evidence we are back at square one, no evidence for God. There we sit, waiting for evidence of God.
A true scientifically minded person, or logically minded person would never be an atheist. He would always leave room open for further interpretation. At best he would be agnostic.
A true scientifically minded person, or logically minded person, would never assert that a being exists for which there is no evidence. Therefore, they would be an atheist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2010 7:43 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 223 of 276 (582242)
09-20-2010 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by riVeRraT
09-20-2010 1:41 PM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
I keep telling you guys, and we have been through this in another thread, lack of objective evidence does not proof the non-existence of something.
I, as an atheist, agree.
Instead of making this about belief vs. non-belief perhaps we could use a different word. Atheists are not convinced that there is evidence for a deity. IOW, we are skeptical of these claims. I think this captures the situtation much better because it does leave open the possibility that we can be convinced further down the line if new evidence comes to light.
Sometimes in life the greatest discoveries start with subjective evidence.
Then comes the hard part, getting the objective evidence to back it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2010 1:41 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2010 2:08 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 225 of 276 (582245)
09-20-2010 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by riVeRraT
09-20-2010 1:57 PM


Re: adddressing the point.
Yes, I can describe myself as being that, it would be 100% accurate.
When someone asks you what your religious beliefs are do you list off the thousands of gods you don't believe in? Or do you tell them about the god that you do believe in?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2010 1:57 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10199
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 236 of 276 (582294)
09-20-2010 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by riVeRraT
09-20-2010 2:08 PM


Re: wow, didn't see that coming.
Yea, the double blind, scientific study evidence to prove the creator of everything, who doesn't want you to prove He exists, will be hard, and probably impossible to find.
Then apparently God wants to be left alone, and I am more than happy to oblige.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2010 2:08 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024