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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay\transgender -- not by genetics, not by upbringing, not by choice | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
An interesting article:
Identical twin boys, one transgender become brother and sister - The Boston Globe
quote: We can rule out genetics.We can rule out upbringing. We can rule out "choice". What's left is fetal development - the process that builds a fetus from the genetic recipe - and a mutation in the progress of that development in one fetus. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
perhaps in coffee house?
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Now we can see if this takes off
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Panda,
RAZD writes:
Can we? We can rule out genetics.quote:Therefore, identical twins are not completely genetically identical. Could they be so different as to cause one twin to by trans-gender? I don't know. But they are not genetically identical, so why should we exclude genetics? There are plenty of studies on genetic\developmental differences in twins (google, birth defects among twins, scholarly articles)
Twins, triplets have greater chance of birth defects
quote: They say developmental effects rather than genetic. Even when they know they have genetic differences (MF twins).
RAZD writes:
To expect 2 children to have the same up-bringing (because they are twins) is overly simplistic. We can rule out upbringing.Twins are not actually physically joined. An individual twin experiences a different life to his brother.These different experiences lead to different behaviour. Could certain events in a life lead to gender confusion? I don't know.But I see no reason to exclude the possibility that they could. In this specific case the family says the differences started too soon for them to have significantly different experiences. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Taz,
Why can't it be a combination of those factors? Affecting one and not the other?
Human sexuality, like all other human traits, are influenced by a combination of genetic factors, environmental factors, hormonal factors, and zeus knows what else. Hormones are part of the environmental factors during gestation, as is zeus.
Now, if we were to talk about what rights should these people have because of their sexuality, I say choice or not has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. It shouldn't even be part of the debate, that whether a person can choose to be gay or not. ... And I agree that it has nothing to do with individual rights. But this set of twins shows that the behavior patterns started at a significantly younger age than sexual development.
... So what if tomorrow I choose to be gay and the next day I choose to be straight? Have you actually tried it? Curiously, I did when I was young and adventurous (free love hippy days), and it didn't work, even in mixed company. From my, admittedly anecdotal experiences, I conclude that one can only choose whether to express or repress the sexuality that one has. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Tangle,
I've been reading a little about phenotypic plasticity lately, a trait found in all organisms but spectacularly in insects and plants. It means that how an individual's phenotype (ie physical form) is created from its genotype (ie its DNA) depends on many environmental and other factors. What other factors are there? I see environmental rather broadly (hormones and chemicals, temperatures, nutrients, etc), and we are talking about behavioral traits showing up rather soon after birth.
So it is entirely possible that a twin can be different - in fact all identical twins ARE different despite having identical genotypes - as an obvious example, they have different fingerprints, but there are always other subtle differences that enable family members to tell them apart. Implying that these are developmental differences rather than genetic differences. This would be good reason for random patterns in fingerprints for instance rather than family similarities.
So, to take a giant and heroic leap in logic, perhaps we should now be looking for a difference in the very early upbringing or even birth of these two children that might have caused a difference in gene expression. That is where I go on this one: developmental differences in when gene expression is keyed to occur. This is also consilient with the twin study cited above on birth defects. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Straggler,
Ringp writes: Is there such a thing as a white man trapped in a black man's body? Would race reassignment surgery be the solution? That is an interesting question. Has there ever been a case of this? Michael Jackson? Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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