Is God good?

You seem to be hinging "free will" upon a light vs. dark (good vs. evil) choice.
Why is that? Must it be so?Do you not think that I exercise my free will when I choose a blue shirt over a green one?Removing evil may remove some amount of free will. But I think it's a bit dramatic to say that it removes all free will.What do you think?

Maybe, maybe not.With nothing else to compare it to, though... what other possibility do we have? So you say, but do not explain.
How does a moral God give us a basis for right and wrong?
Is following God's moral code actually being moral? Or is it simply "following orders" and not actually thinking about the decision at all?What is God's morality, can we even know it?
Is it absolute? Objective? His whim?
What are the rules?
Are we simply robots if we do follow it?If God just defines Himself as good, how can we actually know if He really is good?
If the answer is "have faith" then the answer for the question "Is God good?" is "I don't know... but have faith" as well.
A reasonable and logical answer (from the premise of God being good)... but it doesn't really help to explain anything at all. We are still left not knowing if God is good or not. Please do not feel as if I'm trying to get you to reply, that is not my intention at all. I just like to think and talk about these things.

Would an accident count?
Someone trying to do what's right.. but innocently setting something off that ends up doing evil?Maybe this requires a definition of "evil" in order to answer correctly. If "doing evil" includes an actual intent on causing negativity, then perhaps an accident would not suffice. Personally, I would argue that values we come up with ourselves are more valid than anything pronounced from someone else (even God Himself). This would be on a responsibility/honourable kind of level. Are you really "being moral" if you're just doing what God told you to do?
Following orders doesn't exactly sound like something I would look up to on a moral level.
If all God does is provide "orders," how can we tell if God is good or not?

May very well be true. I don't think so But what I think is what I think, and what you think is what you think.To me, your words are hollow because they don't really depend on anything."My point is that we cant make an informed (or complete) decision without knowing His heart/His conscience."I can re-word and also say:"My point is that we cant make an informed (or complete) decision without knowing all the information surrounding a situation."Your way depends on God, my way doesn't. But neither way actually changes the issues.
We still have problems.
We still have difficult problems.
We still have times when we don't know "the best" course of action.
We still don't know if God is good or not.
...and all these things still occur regardless if we take your position or my position.Personally, I like my position because I have the possibility of getting "all the information" in a mundane sense (or, maybe, at least someone smarter than me potentially could...). That gives me comfort.
I would guess that you like your position because it contains the possibility of "being guided" by a God which includes a certain "big brother security blanket" kind of comfort.As well, I personally don't care where you get your comfort from (no offense..)
But I will ask for you to please "not care" about where I get my comfort from as well...Hmmm... that wasn't meant with an accusatory tone. And not even specifically at you. More of a general "how to deal with other people" kind of plea, that's all.I also don't remember if I had a focused point for this post. Perhaps it was just a bit of a ramble, and now it is over...

Good point
Sorry, I must have overlooked the context and gotten stuck on the universal claim. Yes, that certainly adds to it in the world we live in.
I'm even talking about a fictional world as well though. Consider a world where God is prevalent, personal, and approachable. He exists, and is amongst us and there is no confusion at all as to wether or not He is all-powerful, and the creator of all seen and unseen.
Even given all that... I still think that our personal creation of our own values for good/bad would be more important than those pronounced from His Excellency without reasoning that can be agreed upon. (And, if we are agreeing upon reasoning... then it's really our own personal creation that just happens to match the choices of God anyway).

Sure. Could be. But it would seem to make God awfully... petty. Are you sure you want to do that to God? If I was God, I might take offense, or at least laugh at you For me, I don't see an issue about "final choice" or "demand."
I also don't see a conflict about "giving in" to a creator.I just plain don't think about that sort of power-struggle when thinking about God.
When I think about God, I don't think about some being that wants to control or play a power-game with me. I think about a benevolent, loving being. One that thinks, and cares and is mature.Such a being would want us to use the brain He gave us to make our own decision.
Such a being would be physically ill from the thought of us simply "giving in" to Him because He's the creator without trying to think about it with the powerful thought-processes He endowed us with.
"Giving in" simply because He is all-powerful is exactly what He wouldn't want.
If He wanted people to "give in," He would have created a bunch of robots with his all-powerfull-ness.But He didn't. He created thinking, unique, concsious individuals.I just respect that decision of His enough to actually use my thinking, unique, consciousness in order to judge things to the best of my ability (the same ability that He gave to me).If a father gives a child an order... do you think the father feels proud if the child complies because the father is "all-powerful" and "knows best?" Or, do you think the father feels proud if the child complies because the child thought about the issue on his own and came to the same conclusion that the order is the right thing to do anyway?The child isn't demanding anything, and "giving in" would be a less-valued acceptance.
It's really the best case scenario for all beings (Gods and humans) involved.Of course, this all goes in context: ...where God exists

Did Jesus give me my brain?Assuming yes, then I would say that Jesus has made me "more equipped to pass judgement on these biblical events." I would even go on to say that Jesus wants me to pass my own judgement. If not... why would He have given me a brain?

The world seems to operate as if transgression against good is really ultimately meaningless.
Have you considered that the world may operate in this way because that's actually the way it is?Of course, even given the existence of a transcendent moral rule maker... transgression against good is still really ultimately meaningless.It may have meaning to the transcendent moral rule maker... but beyond that, it would still be meaningless.
Just as human-based morals have meaning to human rule makers... but beyond that, it would still be meaningless.If both systems are ultimately meaningless anyway, why would you consider one to be "better"?Which leads us back to the same answer... the only way to judge if God is good is to judge it ourselves. Are God's?
Regardless... why would the answer to these questions matter?

There may be honour for us in such a system.
But there would be no honour for God in sustaining such a system. What is honourable in allowing evil to destroy people?Respecting the choice of people to do evil?
Respecting evil... is only done by those who are evil.If God has the power to run such a system, then God is not good, and certainly not honourable.

Of course I'm warped.Oh.. maybe you havn't met me But yeah, trust me... I'm pretty warped.But who elses standard could I possibly use to judge anything other than my own?
If I don't actually believe it's good or bad, then how can I "just say" it's good or bad according to some other standard? I suppose I could lie... but that doesn't seem right. I am judging God according to the only possible way I can... by however I am.
That may be fallen, or perfect, or helplessly lost, or somewhere unknown. But how could I judge something using another standard? I can compare something to another standard... but I cannot judge anything unless it is by my own standard.It can be wrong. And I can be condemned for it. But there doesn't seem to be a way around it.
I suppose I could trust you... but that doesn't feel right at all.
Because, you see... you can be wrong too. Your entire post you just wrote to me could be all wrong. It certainly feels wrong. Just feels... icky, like someone trying to tell me they have my best interests in mind when they really want something else. There's no need for me to try that... I already know that. What makes you think I haven't already done all this?
What makes you so sure God isn't guiding me, and you aren't the one who's mistaken? I certainly feel very strongly that you're absolutely wrong, and I'm at least closer to being right. I may not be able to be sincere. Or maybe He has answered already, and I'm just not allowed to tell you. Oh, I really don't think I'd mind. But if your assumptions let you feel better, please keep them. I don't want to make you sad. Why should I care about my soul?
I don't care too much about what happens to me. I just try to do what I can, when I can. If other people (or Gods) feel the need to judge me or condemn me... there's not too much I can do about it.
I don't like politics.

How can I honestly ask God anything, if God doesn't want me to be honest?That doesn't make sense at all. Being confusing about basic stuff doesn't seem like a good thing.

I'm not telling Him that He has to put up with me. Where would you get that idea? He is free to reject me if He judges that to be the way things should be.But I don't see how lying to myself would be a path leading to a God who is good. That would only lead to a God who is not good.
Therefore, I have to remain honest to myself, and if that leads to God, then I'll find God. You seem to tell other people what they're doing a lot. And you also get it wrong a lot. I think you should try not to judge other people so much, it will take some stress away.
Again, I don't think it's okay to ignore anything... and I'm not trying to ignore anything. I certainly am not trying to get God to obey me, that would seem futile.A good teacher listens to their students and tries to find their level of knowledge and speaks to that. You seem to be attempting to teach me about God by telling me things I already know. That doesn't help either of us. Assuming God exists and the Bible is correct... God certainly doesn't seem like someone to be pushed around. However, I will try to figure out if He is good or not. And you haven't addressed any of that yet, other than repeating that He is good. I understand that you think He is good. However, that does not help me in finding out if I think He is good.I think someone is good when they do things for other people that those other people want done for them.
I think someone is bad when they do things for other people that those other people do not want done for them.I do not think it's right to judge something as good or bad simply because a label of "I am good" is tattooed on their forehead.Therefore, the print in the Bible that says God is good doesn't tell me anything.
The parts in the Bible where Jesus heals the sick tells me that God is good.
The parts in the Bible where God destroys cities or most of the world tells me that God is bad. I do not fear an omnipotent being. What would be the point of that? They can do whatever they want to me, and I am powerless to stop any of it. So why would I fear it?What would make me less ignorant?
I've already read the Bible.
I'm trying to listen to you... but you don't seem to want to respond to me, you just keep telling me things about myself that aren't true.
I am honestly asking God to reach out to me, if I'm not too upsetting for Him.
Do you have any additional actual advice? Or just more capital letters telling me nothing more than "you're doing it wrong"? I don't have a problem with that. I have no personal attachment to the way I think the world is, it's simply what I've been able to figure out from the information I have so far. If I get some new information, I'm certainly willing to change my ideas based upon that. But to change my ideas simply on your say-so... (even if it is very passionate) well, I've also learned that that sort of thing leads to trouble. Again, not true. I'm not resisting anything at all. You haven't even presented anything I could resist if I wanted to. All you've done is repeated "you're doing it wrong!" without any reasonable explanation about how to do it right... Well, other than just agreeing with you for no reason, anyway.The confusion is that you say God is good, but you you're also expecting me to lie to myself (just agree with you for no reason) in order to see why that is right. That is confusing. But perhaps this is simply the way it has to be?You seem to be saying that I'm ignorant of God, and that I don't know God.
I completely agree with you on those points. I have no idea what you're talking about.Then you jump right to the end and say things like... "If you knew God, then you would know that He is good".
Well, I can see how that can be correct as well.The problem is getting from the beginning to the end. You seem to be completely glossing over the entire reasoning area where you show me who God is and how to get to know Him. Well, that's not completely true... you do offer one path... "just do it". Which is confusing. I cannot simply turn on some "know God" lightswitch or something. And the things I do know of Him (from the Bible) show some conflicting nature between God being good and also being bad. If there are more ways to know God other than the Bible, it would be better if you could describe those ways instead of just repeating that I'm ignorant of God. I already know that.

Defending how the spoils of war are treated in order to show how God is good is like defending how eggshells are disposed of in order to show how nice the omelette tastes."Wars happen" is not a defence for a benevolent, powerful God.If God restrains himself from preventing war... then He's not good.
If God isn't powerful enough to prevent war... then He's not God.

Sure.So we have two people coming into contact.
One wants to take God's way (being nice).
The other wants to take the other way and causes head trauma to the first who can now no longer be nice because that part of his brain is missing.One person didn't want to hurt anyone.
One person wanted to hurt others.Someone is going to get what they want.
Someone is not going to get what they want.
Someone's strong minds, opinions and wills are going to be removed.Why does God side with the evil one and remove the will of the good one?
Why doesn't God side with the good one and remove the will of the evil one? They do not prove the non-existence of God.
They prove the non-existence of a benevolent, powerful, wise God.God could have created a world where evil's free will is restricted and passive free will is allowed to flourish.
Instead, we live in a world where evil's free will is allowed to flourish and passive free will is restricted.

quote:

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If God restrains himself from preventing war... then He's not good.
If God isn't powerful enough to prevent war... then He's not God.

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...Simple and true.God not restricting the free will of evil people is not an excuse for a benevolent, powerful, wise God when evil people are capable of restricting the free will of others.If a God restrains Himself from restricting the free will of people who restrict the free will of others... then God is not good.

You can have all the slack
I'm not saying you're a bad person at all. If I had to guess, I'd guess that you're a fine, upstanding citizen.
But you're not a benevolent, powerful, wise God.
You're not in control over this world.God is. God doesn't get that slack, because all of this is His.
Therefore, the existence of evil is God's problem. And He fails at it.
Either He isn't benevolent, or He isn't powerful.Whichever way we pick, He either isn't God, or isn't good. I agree. (Because we're taking the Bible as 100% correct in this thread).But what about bad things that happen to good men in which the good still does not overcome, overpower or reign victoriously, though?
God allows those to happen.
And He's set up a system where good people lose and bad people win.
He easily could have done it in reverse.
He didn't, so He's not good. Okay.
But no one has overcome the world.
Evil is still here, the world is still here, God is still allowing the problem of evil to continue.
Therefore God is still not powerful, or He's not good. No, I can't even see that He was ever here.
There was a problem of evil before Jesus, and there still is one now. He seemingly didn't do anything.Even if God cures the problem of evil in the future, or in the afterlife. He still isn't curing it now.
So, He's either not powerful, or not good. This isn't pessimism, it's looking at reality.
Are you denying that human sex trafficking exists today?
Are you denying that many good people suffer many horrible evils today, for no reason at all?It's not pessimism to acknowledge reality. But it is ignorant to hand-wave it away as it doesn't matter. I am not looking for personal enjoyment. Myself, I'm having a pretty good time in this life. I even have the freedom to speak of such things on this wonderful internet with you. Others, however, are not so lucky. Why make them suffer and wait even another second? Why not cure the problem of evil now?
There are only two possibilities:
a) God is not powerful enough.
b) God is not good enough.While posting with foreveryoung, I've come to realize that it is certainly possible that I'm simply not smart enough to understand "God's plan."I admit that it is possible that I simply do not understand the full situation and that God really is good.
Of course, I must also admit that it is possible that you are completely wrong and God really isn't very good at all.All I can do is make judgements with the information I have available.
I am fully open to new information, and upon such I will review the scenario again.However, the information I do have is that a problem of evil does exist in this world.
There is a problem of evil, and if I had enough power I could stop it and end the problem. I would simply restrict the evil man's free will instead of the good man's free will whenever the two came into conflict. I could even use the "absolute moral system" as found in the Bible (which is still assumed to be 100% correct for this thread).There is a problem of evil.
A powerful and benevolent God would correct it (I would if I was powerful and benevolent).
Therefore God is not powerful (not God).
Or, God is not good.Or, of course, I could be wrong as I don't have all the information.
But all judgements are made without all the information, and contain this clause.