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Author Topic:   Is God good?
rueh
Member (Idle past 3688 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


(1)
Message 18 of 722 (661423)
05-05-2012 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by mike the wiz
05-03-2012 2:58 PM


The law of non-contradiction?
Hello Mike,
Mike the wiz writes:
The error is that of the law of none-contradiction. You are saying that God is ultimately bad and yet there is nothing ultimately bad.
It just doesn't work - it takes denial to pretend to yourselves that this works
It is these scriptures that describe God, which we hold as comments pertaining to God, such as, "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all". We TRUST and have FAITH that such scriptures are true, so we are not going to make foolish and self-righteous politically correct assertions about God, who we are told, is unfathomably great.
If it is 100% accurate, even for the topic, then LOGICALLY, you have came to a non sequitur by saying God is no good, because christ said, "there is only one who is good, that being God".
So if the bible is 100% accurate, then it would mean that when you believe in 100% of the bible, you are obviously not going to come to the conclusion that God is not good, because many scriptures tell us that He is the source of all good.
Well than that to is in error because of the law of non-contradiction.
1 John 1:5 writes:
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
Isaiah 45:7 writes:
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
So if you are to believe that the bible is 100% acurate than it is impossible for it to be correct in saying that there is no darkness in God while at the same time saying that God is responsible for darkness. It is by it's own proclomation contradictory and by your logic, in error.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2012 2:58 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 11-22-2012 10:15 AM rueh has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3688 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 22 of 722 (681145)
11-23-2012 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
11-22-2012 10:15 AM


Re: The law of non-contradiction?
Good morning Phat, hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
Why is it a contradiction to say that God can create or allow something to exist that He is not?
Well let's frame it on a human level. If I were to create a bomb and place it in a school. This bomb would only detonate if one of the kids disobeyed a school rule. Would I be evil? Or would the childeren be responsible for their own fate? Since it was they who knowingly broke a rule. How can I create and knowingly do something that is considered evil without being evil myself? In the same way. How can God create darkness or disaster and knowingly inflict it upon others, without being responsible for that which was created?

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 11-22-2012 10:15 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 11-23-2012 9:55 AM rueh has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3688 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 25 of 722 (681152)
11-23-2012 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
11-23-2012 9:55 AM


Re: Light and Darkness
So to bring this back to my hypothetical. The kids in the school would only have free will once the bomb was in place?
I interjected when Mike the wiz wrote:
Mike the Wiz writes:
So if the bible is 100% accurate, then it would mean that when you believe in 100% of the bible, you are obviously not going to come to the conclusion that God is not good, because many scriptures tell us that He is the source of all good.
My take is, that his objection do to the law of non contradiction. (which by the way I think is phooey, many things in life are contradictory) does not bear out when you read what the bible says about God. I believe that if we are going to take the bible passages as a literal interpretation about the actions and will of God. Than it says that God is the source of evil as well. By creating darkness and disaster that would make God responsible and the source of the consequences of that which God created.
Is God good, or evil? The truth is I don't know. I don't have any information on which to make such a determination. But if we frame it as: Is God of the bible, reading as 100% accurate good or evil? Then God is evil. God creates evil, God creates disasters and therfore responsible for the consequences from God's creation.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 11-23-2012 9:55 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 11-23-2012 12:06 PM rueh has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3688 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


(1)
Message 27 of 722 (681164)
11-23-2012 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by mike the wiz
11-23-2012 12:06 PM


Re: Light and Darkness
Hello Mike,
Mike writes:
The contradiction you proposed, is not really a contradiction.
Logically, the two predicates are disparate. You can do evil, and not be evil, logically.
Evil = does evil actions.
Does evil actions = Evil? (incorrect, affirmation of consequent)
Care to give an example of how you can do evil without being evil yourself?
Mike writes:
Now you might say, "but I know wrong" - EXACTLY, therefore you were created as a moral being AND God IS moral, AND he says we are all guilty of sin, therefore we need to repent and only His morals count.
I disagree. Knowing right from wrong does not mean that there is a God who imbibed you with this knowledge. Right and wrong are a function of your culture and your expeirences. When I was a child I had to be taught what was right and what was wrong. Just as you were. I took these teachings and applied them to my life and make my own moral judgments based upon them. Are they subjective. Of course they are they. That doesn't make them any less valid though.
Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 11-23-2012 12:06 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Stile, posted 11-23-2012 2:53 PM rueh has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3688 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 32 of 722 (681225)
11-23-2012 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Stile
11-23-2012 2:53 PM


Re: Light and Darkness
Hello Stile.
Would an accident count?
Yes I guess an accident would qualify. In the strictest sense. It would be considered an "evil" act yet not done with evil intent. When we are considering an all knowing God, I'm not really sure that God could justify an accident as a reasonable excuse though.
Personally, I would argue that values we come up with ourselves are more valid than anything pronounced from someone else (even God Himself)... If all God does is provide "orders," how can we tell if God is good or not?
Agreed. Especially if you consider that each civilization and culture around the world has a different take on what God considers to be moral behavior. And I would say that each person has a different opinion as well as to what he/ she feels is God's opinion.
Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Stile, posted 11-23-2012 2:53 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Stile, posted 11-26-2012 9:21 AM rueh has not replied

  
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